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Tips to speed up my three-finger arpeggios?
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sig
Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin
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 RE: Tips to speed up my three-finger... (in reply to wiking)
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I know exactly what you mean. I played guitar for a number of years with a pick, electrics, acoustic but never finger picking. I had tried but could never seem to master it. I decided that I wouldn't start any lessons until I could at least fundamentally do a simple arp. I worked for close to a year before I started lessons and it helped quite a bit. I would suggest like others have, go very slowly. as that's the best way to proceed. If you can master it slowly you will have little trouble speeding it up. Enjoy the learning process as much as the actual playing.
A technique that I have used and has helped with arps and tremolo is master one finger at a time. For instance against the metronome slowly on each click, play the following arp combination use any chord you like, I like using an E maj, p, plucks the 6th string followed by the i on 5th string: p,i,p,i,p,i then add p,i,m,p,i,m,p,i,m then add the next finger p,i,m,a etc... Maybe the first day you only work the p & i fingers and add the next one the following day. The key is to make is smooth and controlled before fast!
Sig--
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Date May 9 2014 16:57:43
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Bulerias2005
Posts: 628
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN
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RE: Tips to speed up my three-finger... (in reply to wiking)
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Practicing slowly is, interestingly enough, not going to get you to where you want to be. Normally, yes, it is sound advice... but in the case of techniques like arpeggio, I believe that the specific way in which one's muscles tense up when going faster vs. slower is very different.
I agree with Ricardo's advice, and would also like to add that you need some degree of tension in your fingers -- right about in the middle of each finger -- in order to play arpeggios very quickly and very cleanly. I'm teaching a guy right now whose goal is to improve these techniques, and it's interesting to analyze his playing and my own and see where the specific differences lie. We've found that the tension I'm referring to is crucial. I guess tension is the wrong word... rigidity? Tough to explain without actually demonstrating it in person.
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Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
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Date May 10 2014 21:04:11
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3529
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Tips to speed up my three-finger... (in reply to Bulerias2005)
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I used to believe this, but am starting to think that you can actually play very fast with minimal tension (you know, like almost all teachers tell us, but we don't really believe them, because, well, it's just unnecessary and we don't like that dead feeling our hand, we think we should be _doing_ something). The key for me is to keep that hand almost asleep. The fingers come out when they need to. Control the fingers with your voice. ta ta ta ta, etc. When you're ready, they will obey. Three months or whatever OP said isn't enough to play well, obviously. And OP's rasgueados are not "good" at three months. It's a process, and you never really "arrive"--unless you're Grisha or something.
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Date May 11 2014 17:04:27
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Bulerias2005
Posts: 628
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN
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RE: Tips to speed up my three-finger... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
I used to believe this, but am starting to think that you can actually play very fast with minimal tension (you know, like almost all teachers tell us, but we don't really believe them, because, well, it's just unnecessary and we don't like that dead feeling our hand, we think we should be _doing_ something). The key for me is to keep that hand almost asleep. The fingers come out when they need to. Control the fingers with your voice. ta ta ta ta, etc. When you're ready, they will obey. Three months or whatever OP said isn't enough to play well, obviously. And OP's rasgueados are not "good" at three months. It's a process, and you never really "arrive"--unless you're Grisha or something.
Oh, yeah, the tension I am describing is very minimal. Too much and one's hands are way too stiff to do anything. It's a very delicate balance, but I'm just saying that some degree of tension is definitely necessary, IMO.
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Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
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Date May 11 2014 17:16:13
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Erik van Goch
Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands
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RE: Tips to speed up my three-finger... (in reply to mark indigo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
I used to believe this, but am starting to think that you can actually play very fast with minimal tension (you know, like almost all teachers tell us, but we don't really believe them, because, well, it's just unnecessary and we don't like that dead feeling our hand, we think we should be _doing_ something).
made me chuckle, especially "we think we should be doing something" - so true! 
Reminds me on a lesson with Paco Peña who (when i stroked a chord with the thump) insisted i'd played it with a complete dead hand. That lesson was not enough for me to get it done, because that level of relaxation was (and is) beyond my usual capacities. Keep trying he said when i left.... the result will amaze you. Amaze was a huge understatement because when i finally succeeded playing like that (after 2 hours of struggling) that dead hand (using gravity only) almost split my guitar in two and produced the most clean and spectacular sound that ever escaped my guitar. After enjoying playing like that for a wile i went to bed....
I was never able to repeat that ever again but i had similar "1 day only" experiences with alzapua and the i finger moving up and down (stroking chords), all combining zero input with perfect output. The same applies to the left hand, at my very best moments it played as light as a feather, investing little or no energy wile getting the most wonderful outcome in return (quite often left hand problems are caused by insufficient relaxation). The few times in my life i seriously invested time and energy in studying/playing "as light as possible" the results were unanimously spectacular (unfortunately true relaxing is far from relaxing if you haven't mastered it yet and in the beginning demands tons of mental focus/energy and constant nursing).
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Date May 12 2014 1:03:38
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Bulerias2005
Posts: 628
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN
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RE: Tips to speed up my three-finger... (in reply to mark indigo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
I'm just saying that some degree of tension is definitely necessary
It might depend on your working definition of "tension".
If you are using that word to mean (the sensation of) having two opposing sets of muscles turned on at the same time, then even if it's just a little bit, that is in no way going to help with any kind of movement performance.
If you are using that word to mean any muscular contraction, then yes, you are going to need muscular contraction, because that is what creates movement at a joint.
I'm not offering a technical definition because I was iffy on the word "tension" to begin with. All I know is that there is a definite difference in *insert word I'm looking for here* when you compare flailing around with an arpeggio, where you are missing strings occasionally, to a very controlled, accurate, and fast arpeggio.
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Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
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Date May 12 2014 1:57:58
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3529
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Tips to speed up my three-finger... (in reply to Erik van Goch)
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Erich,
I have had "once-in-a-lifetime" experiences like that. Harold Taylor wrote a book called "The Pianist's Talent", where he postulates that great talents are simply naturally coordinated. Once in a while, we can accidentally (or through Alexander Training) improve our coordination and get a glimpse into their world of ease and perfect use of our bodies. Reminds me a bit of an Isaac Asimov sci fi story where a character gets revenge on an ex by somehow contriving for her to, one night only, sing like an angel.
Daniel,
It is possible that some seemingly extra tension in the hand is useful. There are just too many stiff little fingers out there in the flamenco world, all-world category, for me to believe they are all just doing it wrong. The hand needs to be stabilized in some manner.
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Date May 12 2014 2:07:28
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