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Blanca vs Negra - is only the wood different? Or are there other differences?   You are logged in as Guest
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TrickyFish

 

Posts: 55
Joined: Dec. 7 2018
 

Blanca vs Negra - is only the wood d... 

A question to luthiers about the differences between a flamenco blanca and a negra:

Is the only difference between a blanca and a negra the type of wood used in the back and sides? Or are there other strucural differences that contribute to tonal differences?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2023 20:51:04
 
Fawkes

 

Posts: 104
Joined: Feb. 11 2015
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

I shall brazenly answer despite not having yet built a guitar:

It depends on who's making it. I can't remember names but I think some luthiers here have said they don't really do anything different.

Although the sample size I have access to via plans and books is comparatively small, it looks to me like Santos, building before the Segovia Schism was in full swing, braced cypress and rosewood guitars in ways that appear intended to even out the differences.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2023 23:11:49
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

Negras are usually played by people who have a certain skill that it makes sense they have a more "elaborated clean concert sound". Negras are also played by people who believe they have a certain skill that a negra makes sense for their play - it may or may not be the case.

Blancas are usually played by baller puro bulerias lovers who need some pep and punchy flamenco sound - and by people who understand that no negra can be as flamenco as a blanca

Everyone goes through "phases"..and playing negra is certainly a phase. It will wear off if the player is in the game long enough - even for the most famous flamenco guitar player the world has ever seen... Ottmar Liebert.

Cheers ;-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2023 10:44:03
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

All woods can generate a certain sound, long sustain, short sustain, more bass, less bass, but the main overall difference in my opinion is,
that a blanca lower and higer notes melt better together, they have the same sound color.
With a negra the sound collor of the low notes is different than the sound color of the high notes.
Like a piano, the sound color of the notes in the lower part is different than the higher part.
For instance, left sounds like a sax and right like a bell like instrument.
With a blanca, the overall sound is more even, like a harp.

Ofcourse you can like and dislike both. I like blanca’s with long sustain with a “grow” and Negra’s with a short sustain. (Low bass and bell like high)
I Am lucky to have both exactly as my taste.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2023 16:08:36
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

Some do, some don't and some offer both! It depends on what you are looking for from each guitar.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2023 8:59:52
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

It’s like asking a painter how they paint the sky.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2023 10:23:55
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

Yes and no.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2023 4:19:44
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14818
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

quote:

Is the only difference between a blanca and a negra the type of wood used in the back and sides?


Yes.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2023 11:39:10
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

Does anyone fancy a mango for breakfast? I sure do, a mango with some toast and a boiled egg is a splendid breakfast. Of course accompanied by a strong coffee.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2023 14:30:53
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Does anyone fancy a mango for breakfast? I sure do, a mango with some toast and a boiled egg is a splendid breakfast. Of course accompanied by a strong coffee.


Though a mango would have gone down quite well, this morning I had two tamales de puerco, one with pico de gallo, the other with salsa poblana.

...with strong coffee of course, ground from whole beans. I alternate among Sulawesi, Balinese and Sumatran--but that's the only difference.

Which reminds me, the distinguished mathematician R.L. Moore used to preface his definition of topological equivalence with an anecdote. As a graduate student at the University of Chicago in the early 1900s he passed through the famous Marshall Fields department store where a man had drawn a crowd for a demonstration. In one hand he held a potato peeler. In the other hand he held an object. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a potato, but that's the only difference."

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 0:03:23
 
Joan Maher

 

Posts: 213
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RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to estebanana

Tomato with Jamon Serrano, coffee and small brandy please.

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Gracias!


Joan Josep Maher
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 8:27:49
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Does anyone fancy a mango for breakfast? I sure do, a mango with some toast and a boiled egg is a splendid breakfast. Of course accompanied by a strong coffee.


Sliced mango and papaya as a mixed tropical fruit dish makes for a wonderful breakfast.

As for coffee, it is hard to beat Sumatran. Having lived a total of eight years in Indonesia and Malaysia, I can attest to how good Sumatran coffee can be at its point of origin. There is a very flavorful (although quite expensive) coffee known in Malay and Indonesian as "Kopi Luwak." ("Luwak" is the Malay/Indonesian term for the Palm Civet, sometimes incorrectly called a "civet cat.") Kopi Luwak is made from coffee berries ingested by the Palm Civet, the beans of which are then excreted with the Palm Civet's feces and collected for processing as coffee beans. It is said that the flavor of these beans, and the resulting coffee made from them, is enhanced because the Palm Civet only chooses to ingest the finest coffee berries, as well as because of processes occurring in the digestive tract. It should be noted that Kopi Luwak refers to a method of processing coffee beans. It is not a "variety" of coffee.

Kopi Luwak is available in some shops in the United States, but one must be careful that one is purchasing the real thing. There are packages labeled as "Kopi Luwak" that are not, in fact, the real thing, even though they may have been imported from Indonesia. (Shades of "genuine" Rolex watches one can purchase for $50 in Jakarta street markets.)

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 12:41:57
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

I’ve heard from my uncle who worked in Indonesia on development after the tragic tsunami that Indonesia is an interesting country to work in. He marveled over the contrasts and contradictions we as westerners see. He also cultivated a taste for ‘civet coffee’. It appears civet coffee could be genuinely “good to the last drop” 😂

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 14:38:41
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

Jamon, tomato and a few pieces of toasted bread is my favorite lunch. I see no harm in adding a delicious mango into the mix.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 14:41:44
 
Fawkes

 

Posts: 104
Joined: Feb. 11 2015
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

According to a friend of mine from India, those of us who have only had mangos in the US do not know what a real one tastes like.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 14:52:38
 
TrickyFish

 

Posts: 55
Joined: Dec. 7 2018
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

This is a very strange forum
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 19:30:47
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to Fawkes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawkes

According to a friend of mine from India, those of us who have only had mangos in the US do not know what a real one tastes like.


A Javanese girl I knew demonstrated how to peel and slice a mango without getting juice on her fingers. The mangoes in southeast Asia and the Philippines are delicious. I can't remember when I might have bought one in the USA.

She also introduced me to durian, which she cracked open by stomping on them.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 21:54:09
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to Fawkes

quote:

According to a friend of mine from India, those of us who have only had mangos in the US do not know what a real one tastes like.


Mangoes were originally grown in India. They were brought to Southeast Asia, primarily the Malay Peninsula, Thailand, and Java, centuries ago via trade. Everyone has his favorite region for Mangoes. Although I consider those from Malaysia and Indonesia to be delicious, my very favorite are from Thailand. They have a natural sweetness that is exquisite.

Most Mangoes in the US are imported from Mexico, but they are inferior to those of Southeast Asia, in my opinion.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 22:59:23
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

“ his is a very strange forum”

You’ll learn a lot.

Mangoes are delicious, but ask any one person and they have in depth opinions about the mangoes from different regions. Some don’t care for mangoes and prefer jamon and tomato.

So you see that trees are trees and produce wood that is dark in color and wood that is light in color. This is an ineluctable truth.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2023 23:35:30
 
TrickyFish

 

Posts: 55
Joined: Dec. 7 2018
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

You’ll learn a lot.



What i am learning is that the people on this forum appear to want to push newcomers away. Its like you want the art of flamenco to die.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 6:23:34
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

It’s doubtful the members if this forum have any influence on the life or death of any kind of music. Everyone answered your question. It’s simple, the answer is that there’s not much difference and it’s your choice which you like.

Guitar makers don’t have to explain things that don’t need to be explained, one is rosewood and the other is cypress and it’s about that simple.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 9:00:53
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

Tricky Fisch,

Sometimes you do not get the answer what you are looking for, so wich kind of answer you had in mind for youself?

Did you read my post? I do not know if others experiance the same, but it is useful to investigate how you experiance the thing I wrote yourself.
Do not blame other people about the answer they give. It is their answer, respect that.

And, your question was, “is it only the wood or are there any other differents”
It is only the wood. There are no other differents.

So, if you want to know more, ask another question.

P.S. People here like newcomers, but remember you step into a room where a lot of us know eachother for a long time, so you are treated as a gast. We only aspect you behave like one.

Welcome here on the foro. (My name is Peter, the one that writes terrible english)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 9:20:36
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

It can be a strange place but your question was answered several times before the thread turned to mangos. If you were not satisfied with your answers ask some more questions.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 10:37:59
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14818
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Mangoes are delicious, but ask any one person and they have in depth opinions about the mangoes from different regions.


and differing pulsations.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 11:23:24
 
Echi

 

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

In my view the question itself didn't help for a good answer: either cypress or rosewood are just a part of the story as they are elements used by individual luthiers to make flamenco guitars their own way.
The focus is on the luthiers and guitars then.
A negra guitar made by Stephen Eden wouldn't sound like one made by Estebana or Andy Culpepper or Ethan Deutsch in spite of the woods they make use of.
There are luthiers are more appreciated for their blancas than negras as a certain wood may better fit their sound goal.
BTW there's a huge variety among different rosewood species in terms of mass, dampening and stiffness. A negra made with African Blackwood is a different beast than a negra made with a light Indian rosewood or walnut.
In the end, yes, there's a difference between a blanca and a negra of the same makerat least as rosewood is a wood way heavier than cypress; also because rosewood tends to give a different "color" to the note for a different way the high partials are expressed but the point is how a luthier would make use of these characteristics.
To the question: "is it the only difference?" my answer is: "it depends by the maker" even though usually there are little or big differences.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 11:33:32
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

I’ve seen mango trees in Micronesia with huge trunks. And I believe certain species of mango tree would make great guitar wood. Probably not easy to get because it’s not a regularly commercially traded wood, but I’d like to get my hands on some.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 12:30:22
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I’ve seen mango trees in Micronesia with huge trunks. And I believe certain species of mango tree would make great guitar wood. Probably not easy to get because it’s not a regularly commercially traded wood, but I’d like to get my hands on some.


Now that you mention it, I have seen a guitar for sale on the web, with mango back and sides. I liked the look of it. Of course, I don't remember where I saw it...

Googling "mango guitar" turns up several steel-strings and electrics, but not the classical I saw, at least in the first couple of pages.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 21:59:54
 
Fawkes

 

Posts: 104
Joined: Feb. 11 2015
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

https://tinyurl.com/mpka2btn

The video is of a mango topped classical, go figure.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2023 23:24:31
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14818
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

It’s like asking a painter how they paint the sky.


Blue? With hints of Conde Orange.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2023 11:44:25
 
etta

 

Posts: 342
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
 

RE: Blanca vs Negra - is only the wo... (in reply to TrickyFish

Er...back to guitars; yes blanca and negra; not the same; yes, but with different woods, you know, the light and dark thing. BUT, there is more; most of the negras I have played or owned have slightly thicker bodies or depth, front to back, especially in the lower body. Remember this is not about fruit or women, only guitars.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2023 17:17:50
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