RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR

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El Burro Flamencuro

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

we are hoping to keep the price down around $5,000 US

Cool thank you for letting me know. 5k still to rich for my blood. if they were 10k + i would have wondered how many doctors and lawyers play flamenco guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2014 8:58:53

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro)

I'm heartened to see some nice guitar making going on. Good looking head stock Tom.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2014 11:29:09

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana)

Thanks Steve and I hope your condition improves faster than a speeding bullet, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, and that you become stronger than a locomotive. Yes! you are superman and you will overcome all diversity and trial.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2014 13:07:57

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana)

Here is a classical flamenco with cedar top that a friend of mine wants to sell.....

He has had it refurbished and put the proper strings on it for the original tone.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2014 18:55:31

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro)

quote:

classical flamenco

What is a classical flamenco?
Did you make that headstock?

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2014 7:46:49

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

What is a classical flamenco?

I haven't a clue but whatever it might be there always seems to be a lot of them for sale on American eBay.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2014 10:25:21

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

quote:

classical flamenco

What is a classical flamenco?
Did you make that headstock?

The head stock is in the style of the old 1950's Conde of Nino Ricardo, which is the only guitar I've ever built with this head style, and the Box is a modification of the Reyes style with a little deeper box and Malaysian Black wood sides and back; a little deeper sound, but can be used for classical or flamenco. Sharp sound but very lyrical. RE Brune plays this guitar on you tube but it has the wrong strings on it and sounds a little off from my EJ46 D'Addario strings that I used to fine tune the voice with.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2014 11:35:13

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

What is a classical flamenco?

I haven't a clue but whatever it might be there always seems to be a lot of them for sale on American eBay.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2014 12:57:20

chicagoguitar

Posts: 4
Joined: Mar. 4 2011

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

C. Vega "I haven't a clue but whatever it might be there always seems to be a lot of them for sale on American eBay.

Anders Eliasson "

"

What a brood of vipers. There is also a Manuel Reyes up for sale on the American Ebay. There is also an Eliasson blanca for a very discounted price here on the marketplace. In addition another brand new Eliasson blanca posted also in the marketplace. Both are ... unsold.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2014 15:39:56

estebanana

Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro)

The late Phillip Roshegar, a wonderful guitarist who was the first classical guitarist to win the Segovia Competition- I believe it was held in Santiago de Compostela- was also a composer of high quality.

Phil used to play locally in Berkeley and one night at a flamenco gathering a big Granada made guitar was being passed around. It had been made for a guy who was large man and was a very big blanca, perhaps four inches deep and large plantilla with long scale. I think the man to commissioned it was about 6'6" . Phil got ahold of the guitar and began to play classical Spanish rep. Like Moreno Torroba, mid twentieth century stuff, he was a monster player and one of the most musical persons you could ever hope to meet.. Phil played not only with technical sureness, but with tone that dripped off his hands, you wondered where it came from, did it come from inside that box?

He really got into that guitar, he said "You know, when most classical guitarists record the Spanish composers pieces they don't l use a guitar that sounds flamenco and that is a mistake." he went on about for some time a demonstrated places in different works where a flamenco sound and rasgeuado was better than a bell tone round clear classical. He said this that big Granada guitar was perfect for the task because it had a mix of sustain that could sing those melodic passages, but enough grit to make sense of the places in the music that are derived from Spanish folk music and flamenco.

Then after he played a lot of Spanish stuff he played Bach and then said you know Bach needs the grittiness of a flamenco guitar somedays. He liked the way a flamenco guitar would not mudd up pieces by Bach with intricate counter point.

I've tried to build a few guitars based on that conversation and that Granada blanca, I've had some success and I may still keep after that idea because it is a good idea. The trouble with it however is that there are not many classical guitarists like Phillip who recognize that idea and it's difficult to find players who think that way. When one comes along I'll be ready to build them a guitar with those traits in mind because I have been working on it.

Phillip was a truly great musician and I miss hearing him play. He had a way of transmitting music that is rare, he had faults and shortcomings as a person, but his gift to transmit music out shined all that for me. In a way he was a classical guitarist with a flamenco heart.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2014 16:43:45

Morante

Posts: 2230
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana)

I have a friend who is a classical guitarist and has a great tone on any guitar However, he has a Bernal which sounds very ordinary. He had to play at the end of term in the Music School, with several other players.

I lent him my Gerundino and not only did he outplay the rest, but the guitar sounded much better that all of the classical guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2014 17:06:24

BarkellWH

Posts: 3464
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

In a way he was a classical guitarist with a flamenco heart.

Well put, Stephen. It makes perfect sense, as you describe his playing and attitude. And in my opinion, it can only go in the direction cited above. It would be meaningless if one were to suggest the reverse, if someone were to be described as "a flamenco guitarist with a classical heart." It would make no sense.

Cheers,

Bill

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2014 19:41:31

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 1 2014 16:26:50

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2014 16:24:02

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Another rosette shot:

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2014 16:26:08

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Partial back:

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2014 16:28:21

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Head shot:

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2014 16:29:34

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

back of head:

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2014 16:31:31

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Just a short note to confirm Manuel Adalid will be here April 24th for a business get-together and see his latest rendition of my model his is building for the market.

He told my sales agent that this latest model turned out "fantastic" so I'm very excited to see how it turned out.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2014 14:22:16

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Here are some more pictures of my new build:

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2014 14:28:02

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

More.........

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2014 14:29:15

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2014 14:30:32

mellowmel

Posts: 85
Joined: Aug. 31 2006

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Hi Tom. Nice pix with your newest project. Pls keep em' coming.

I own a blanca modeled after your Reyes plan by a local maker who had now since retired. How do I like it? Well, let me ask you this? Will you ever desire another woman after you've married a Ms. Universe who is also a master chef in the kitchen and a porn star in the bedroom? Ok, not the best example.

Anyhoo, on with my question. As with marksmen warming up a barrel with a few shots before sighting in the scope, do you warm up the new guitar before tuning up? And do you re-tune a few years down the road since I imagine there will be physical changes in the wood itself?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 2:23:31

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to mellowmel)

quote:

As with marksmen warming up a barrel with a few shots before sighting in the scope, do you warm up the new guitar before tuning up? And do you re-tune a few years down the road since I imagine there will be physical changes in the wood itself?

I fine tune the guitar after a few days being played; sometimes a week or two if necessary, And usually it does not need retuning if it is tuned the right way in the beginning. It should get better with age.

I tune with a set brand of strings that I suggest leaving on the guitar for it to age properly. Some people use a lot of string brands to try and get the best sound and articulation, which a lot of times does not help the guitar to settle in with a certain brand.

I think one mistake is that a guitar top wants to marry with a particular string but the strings get changed and it confuses the top.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 3:35:54

mellowmel

Posts: 85
Joined: Aug. 31 2006

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

I was talking more about short term warm-up, when you notice that a guitar sounds and maybe even feels better in your hands as you play for a few minutes. I've picked up "cold guitars" and they sound zingy with no punch and unbalanced sound, then after a few minutes, they sound and feel like a totally different guitar for the better. At that state, I was thinking this would be the best time to tune the top.

About the strings, I've done my share of experimentation and had gone back to the EJ46 which gives me THE best sound, power and feel for this guitar. It's hard to explain but it's almost like a small miracle and a very important aspect to guitarists. I know a great deal of players dislike these strings due to its dull or warm sound so I always say that if your guitar likes these strings, you've got a keeper for obvious and well documented reasons.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 6:48:28

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to mellowmel)

Always warm up the guitar by playing it for a while before fine tuning it.

Some instruments will go to sleep faster than others but all guitars should be played to get the vibrations flowing.

I use EJ46 to tune with so this is the best string to leave on my guitars, as age will inevitably bring it to its best performance, as a rule. I've seen some of my guitars that had other strings put on the guitar and some of them had the tone pulled off center...not badly but enough to where I could definitely tell the difference.

And this can effect tone and articulation, and of course, top tension. New guitars will slowly tighten up when played for awhile. And if they are very tight when new, then sometimes they tighten up too much with age.

The trick is to tighten them just enough to keep the strings from buzzing; just a little rajo, but not to buzz too much , and then let age do the rest.

Note: This is not a full explanation but to address your question.

And I might add that any brand string that is used to tune a guitar with should remain on the guitar, not just EJ46. However I like the neutral sound of this string for tuning purposes, so this is what I use.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 12:10:23

mellowmel

Posts: 85
Joined: Aug. 31 2006

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Thanks Tom.

I've tried a couple of your blancas years ago and I wasn't a great judge of guitars back them but what really stuck in my mind was the comfortable pulsation with responsive loud sound. Also, the G strings (regular nylon) were something to behold - it sounds like playing in a cave and hits you deep within. Do you give classes just to teach how to tune for these G string secrets? I'm not a luthier but just wondering and maybe asking for interested builders out there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 5:00:01

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to mellowmel)

I give two day classes for $2500 and this goes through the basic tuning process. I require that a builder construct the GAL plan and then bring it to my shop and I'll show them how to fine tune it. This is basically a professional sharing and not geared to teaching a beginner how to build guitars.

It is more beneficial to know how to build a Spanish style fan brace guitar before taking this class.

And this is not a secret so much as a technique that is used to adjust sound, articulation, and top tension. Most of todays guitar builders have their own adjustments that they use for tone, and pulsation. I have found that my technique doesn't interfere with their's but to be an added technique to enhance the over-all voicing.

It's a microscopic voicing technique and doesn't hurt what other builders have done, as long as its done right. But there is always a risk.... but a risk worth taking if you are building your own new guitar. This technique is a learned way of becoming more proficient with tone.

I fail to see the benefit of fine tuning another builder's instrument, as it potentially gives a false impression of that builder's craft.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 10:38:55

Ricardo

Posts: 15139
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

I fail to see the benefit of fine tuning another builder's instrument, as it potentially gives a false impression of that builder's craft.

Unless it's Pedro de Miguel??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 13:23:53

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to Ricardo)

And what are you referring too, Ricardo?

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 14:54:26

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: FINE TUNING A GUITAR (in reply to El Burro Flamencuro)

Not speaking for Ricardo, but as an owner of a couple PDM's he probably means the
way by which they farmed out a lot of their guitar construction, and then final tune
the guitars and sell them out of their shop as PDM's. At least for the semi prof models,
etc. Like the 27F variants, etc. Which if you look inside of with a mirror you can see
obvious whittling of the braces, etc.

Regards,
Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 15:20:44