Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Suggestions for Arpeggio?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

Suggestions for Arpeggio? 
What's the easiest (or preferred) way to play arpeggio's that have for example two notes
on a single string like this tab excerpt?

Thanks,
Jeff



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 16:27:49
 
JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
Think it depends on the passage and the sound you want. My vote would be to play both with Pulgar here if the intent is not to hammer pull off. or you could play it as a mix of tirando and arpeggio like Gerardo Nunez mastered. it’s tricky! But gives a more articulate sound. Kind of need to experiment with fingerings for that route.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 17:07:30
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
Yeah I can play it, just tricky to get any kind of a smooth flow. Probably just lots of repetition slowly until it fits. Right now it doesn't fit well, so I'm struggling.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 17:25:49
 
kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
Try (pa) i p i m a m i p i p. () means played together, as in the first note group.

In other words, play the D string as i p ascending and p i descending; the treble strings as a normal imami arpeggio; and the A string you start and end with p (and a at the start).

Another way to think about it (still producing the same fingerings for the right hand) is that the sequence of notes on the D string plus three treble strings is your normal pimamip arpeggio sequence and you are just trying to add to that the couple of notes on either end.

While you play the note with i on the D string, use that time to move your thumb from A to D string on the ascending part and from D to A string on the descending part.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 17:37:49
 
rombsix

Posts: 7807
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 


_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 18:07:01
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to kitarist) 
Happen to be sitting at the computer with guitar nearby in this Covid work from home
world, voila - Hey that works.

Rather simple re-ordering of the fingers, and much easier to play. Still need to practice
but it feels way more natural

Thanks!
Jeff


quote:

Try (pa) i p i m a m i p i p. () means played together, as in the first note group.

In other words, play the D string as i p ascending and p i descending; the treble strings as a normal imami arpeggio; and the A string you start and and with p (and a at the start).

Another way to think about it (still producing the same fingerings for the right hand) is that the sequence of notes on the D string plus three treble strings is your normal pimamip arpeggio sequence and you are just trying to add to that the couple of notes on either end.

While you play the note with i on the D string, use tat time to move your thumb from A to D string on the ascending part and from D to A string on the descending part.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 18:10:28
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
Thanks Ramzi for the fast video :)

By the way it's not this exact variation of the tune, but a similar version ... Not Flamenco, but a nice piece on the guitar

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 18:13:48
 
rombsix

Posts: 7807
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
quote:

Thanks Ramzi for the fast video :)

By the way it's not this exact variation of the tune, but a similar version ... Not Flamenco, but a nice piece on the guitar


Sure thing, man. Oh yeah - I know this piece.



_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 18:31:10
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
Excellent!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 18:51:58
 
JasonM

Posts: 2054
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
Jeff that is a pretty cool duet. I like it.

Btw, you still working in the aircraft stuff if I remember correctly?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2020 23:07:32
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to JasonM) 
Hi -

I mess around trying to learn all different kinds of music, depending on my interest of
the day. Lately I have been working on learning some Yann Tiersen piano pieces transposed
to guitar. I just can't stay interested in any particular Flamenco Palos to get that good at it,
but I sure like listening to it. :) ForoFlamenco is the only guitar forum I revisit though, so have
been a member for a long time ...

My airplane stuff:

I was an Aircraft Electrician in The Navy and ever since getting out have been a pilot, and
aircraft builder (light planes) for a hobby. Currently work for a large International Bank and
thinking to retire early, and take up flight instructing as a part time job. I've been flying for
almost 30 years now. Probably my favorite kind of flying is gliders, but I don't have the time
to fly them as you need to spend a lot of time hanging around the field doing ground stuff
for every hour in the air (assembling gliders, helping drag them around, hook up the towplane,
etc, etc). Great sport, but lot's of time at the airport o do it.

Picture below is my complete and flying airplane, N85AE. I have a second one I have been
building, but having kids that are now teens has slowed down work on building it.

Jeff.


quote:

Jeff that is a pretty cool duet. I like it.

Btw, you still working in the aircraft stuff if I remember correctly?




Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 2 2020 19:52:53
 
ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
jeff,
I noted the N number user name and wondered.

I fly the mighty Tri Pacer, a 160 with floats and skis too... The Batplane!

HR



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 3 2020 5:39:08
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
Very Cool, similar hobbies!

Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 0:00:24
 
singlechange

 

Posts: 28
Joined: May 13 2019
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to n85ae) 
Very very cold pic!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 2:53:25
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to JasonM) 
I have a similar question. This is a famous solea falseta. This time 3 notes on high E string.
Sould I play all 3 notes with my ring finger? But it feels somehow weird. I wonder how is it done by maestros?
Or any suggestions?



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 12:11:37
 
Johnc

Posts: 114
Joined: Apr. 16 2011
From: UK

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to devilhand) 
i-m-i
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 12:39:43
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to Johnc) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Johnc

i-m-i

I tried it. It looks like it's picado-driven. What if I wanted to play it with arpeggio like this? But as I mentioned above it must be wrong. Picado technique says always alternate between i and m. I thought the same must be true for arpeggio saying avoid playing multiple notes on a single string with the same finger. But I don't know if it's true.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 14:57:18
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to devilhand) 
First question is what is the audio source for this transcription? Does the original source audio play all three notes on the first string (highlighted) with the right hand, or use a slur?

In the part you shade yellow i pull off from the first fret to open, so for that part i use a, then m, then pull off.

Not picado rest stroke, I use free stroke throughout. Too many slurs. If i was going to use rest stroke I would play every note with right hand and not slur.

so for the whole segment I use p i m a m pull off, i on 2nd string, m 3rd string, i 4th string.

Can't remember the specific source i first learnt it from, but there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of recordings of this old chestnut, many of them played slightly differently.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 19:02:45
 
kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to devilhand) 
quote:

What if I wanted to play it with arpeggio


If you want to keep it as arpeggio, do this - the highlighted portion (previously aaa) is now 'ami', as the second part of a regular pimami arpeggio:





ami on one string is also what you would do within flamenco tremolo (and indeed what classical tremolo is), so please no whining about this suggestion resulting in ami arpeggio being on one string - it is a very useful skill.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 19:21:35
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to kitarist) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

What if I wanted to play it with arpeggio


If you want to keep it as arpeggio, do this - the highlighted portion (previously aaa) is now 'ami', as the second part of a regular pimami arpeggio:





ami on one string is also what you would do within flamenco tremolo (and indeed what classical tremolo is), so please no whining about this suggestion resulting in ami arpeggio being on one string - it is a very useful skill.


The end is wrong. On G string use m finger and i on the F on the D string so p falls immediately on low E. It’s very standard. Also this phrase is typical done where F on first string is a pull off but doubled by plucking holding F on the fourth string at the same time as F on first...and F continues to ring as the other notes are played as pull offs until i hits it again as described above. Of course that is assuming the typical compas expression of this as 16th notes starting on 7 such that the two F notes in octaves are accenting count 8.

If the phrase is meant as triplets starting on count 6, it would be nice to know that.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 19:42:32
 
kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

The end is wrong. On G string use m finger and i on the F on the D string so p falls immediately on low E. It’s very standard.


I noticed that too; keeping the notes as shown here, I was playing that part as:



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 20:23:17
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to kitarist) 
Thanks guys. Helped me a lot.

quote:

First question is what is the audio source for this transcription? Does the original source audio play all three notes on the first string (highlighted) with the right hand, or use a slur?

There's no audio example for this.
I heard it somewhere and learnt the 3 note version without a slur because I liked the way it sounded.

quote:

so for the whole segment I use p i m a m pull off, i on 2nd string, m 3rd string, i 4th string.

You mean a on 2nd string as kitarist suggested?

quote:

If the phrase is meant as triplets starting on count 6, it would be nice to know that.

Could you have an audio or video example for triplets? The phrase I heard has no triplets. All are four 16th notes as you mentioned above. I always thought this falseta section is played only this way.

quote:

Also this phrase is typical done where F on first string is a pull off but doubled by plucking holding F on the fourth string at the same time as F on first...and F continues to ring as the other notes are played as pull offs until i hits it again as described above.

Thanks for the hint. I'll integrate it into my playing.

@kitarist
Your version looks good. I added golpe to the last beat 12. Do you think it's correct now?



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 22:44:54
 
kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to devilhand) 
quote:

You mean a on 2nd string as kitarist suggested?


No he doesn't. His is a version that has a F->E pull-off with m, so next can be i-m-i alternation instead of the ami that I had when there was no pull off and I had to use 'i' for the open-string E note.

quote:

Do you think it's correct now?


There are probably different versions in the double digits of this [part of a] falseta, so 'correct' refers more to 'lack of idiotic or non-flamenco fingerings' and then whether 'it makes flamenco sense as a sequence in its context'.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2020 23:36:18
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to devilhand) 
quote:

Could you have an audio or video example for triplets? The phrase I heard has no triplets. All are four 16th notes as you mentioned above. I always thought this falseta section is played only this way.


No because it is not how it is typically played, and since you admitted you didn’t pull this from some specific person I STRONGLY recommend you do the F to E on the first string as a PULL OFF, and further, add the F bass note on the 4th string. I COULD have imagined a triple phrase where that specific rhythm might (fast solea por buleria tempo) require you to articulate E-F-E without any pull off (in which case kitarist gave the better fingering option), but we can let that go after knowing this was not the case.

Wanted to add that I personally do the D-C-B pull offs on the second string with m finger NOT a finger, then repeat m finger on the third string. If you do this thing really fast you will see why that works best.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2020 14:58:41
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

I STRONGLY recommend you do the F to E on the first string as a PULL OFF, and further, add the F bass note on the 4th string.

I got why you mentioned triplets. It makes more sense now. From now on I'll do F-E pull-off. Thank you for your recommendation.

quote:

Wanted to add that I personally do the D-C-B pull offs on the second string with m finger NOT a finger, then repeat m finger on the third string. If you do this thing really fast you will see why that works best.

Which finger do you use for E-F pull-off?

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2020 20:29:56
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (in reply to devilhand) 
quote:

Which finger do you use for E-F pull-off?


In all honesty 99 out of 100 times I do a sextuplet fast pimami then it’s p and a together on the two F notes. But if I did your specific version it would also be m finger.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2020 1:22:58
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.09375 secs.