Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Full Version)

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n85ae -> Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 16:27:49)

What's the easiest (or preferred) way to play arpeggio's that have for example two notes
on a single string like this tab excerpt?

Thanks,
Jeff



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JasonM -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 17:07:30)

Think it depends on the passage and the sound you want. My vote would be to play both with Pulgar here if the intent is not to hammer pull off. or you could play it as a mix of tirando and arpeggio like Gerardo Nunez mastered. it’s tricky! But gives a more articulate sound. Kind of need to experiment with fingerings for that route.



n85ae -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 17:25:49)

Yeah I can play it, just tricky to get any kind of a smooth flow. Probably just lots of repetition slowly until it fits. Right now it doesn't fit well, so I'm struggling.



kitarist -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 17:37:49)

Try (pa) i p i m a m i p i p. () means played together, as in the first note group.

In other words, play the D string as i p ascending and p i descending; the treble strings as a normal imami arpeggio; and the A string you start and end with p (and a at the start).

Another way to think about it (still producing the same fingerings for the right hand) is that the sequence of notes on the D string plus three treble strings is your normal pimamip arpeggio sequence and you are just trying to add to that the couple of notes on either end.

While you play the note with i on the D string, use that time to move your thumb from A to D string on the ascending part and from D to A string on the descending part.



rombsix -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 18:07:01)




n85ae -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 18:10:28)

Happen to be sitting at the computer with guitar nearby in this Covid work from home
world, voila - Hey that works.

Rather simple re-ordering of the fingers, and much easier to play. Still need to practice
but it feels way more natural

Thanks!
Jeff


quote:

Try (pa) i p i m a m i p i p. () means played together, as in the first note group.

In other words, play the D string as i p ascending and p i descending; the treble strings as a normal imami arpeggio; and the A string you start and and with p (and a at the start).

Another way to think about it (still producing the same fingerings for the right hand) is that the sequence of notes on the D string plus three treble strings is your normal pimamip arpeggio sequence and you are just trying to add to that the couple of notes on either end.

While you play the note with i on the D string, use tat time to move your thumb from A to D string on the ascending part and from D to A string on the descending part.



n85ae -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 18:13:48)

Thanks Ramzi for the fast video :)

By the way it's not this exact variation of the tune, but a similar version ... Not Flamenco, but a nice piece on the guitar




rombsix -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 18:31:10)

quote:

Thanks Ramzi for the fast video :)

By the way it's not this exact variation of the tune, but a similar version ... Not Flamenco, but a nice piece on the guitar


Sure thing, man. Oh yeah - I know this piece.




n85ae -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 18:51:58)

Excellent!



JasonM -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 1 2020 23:07:32)

Jeff that is a pretty cool duet. I like it.

Btw, you still working in the aircraft stuff if I remember correctly?



n85ae -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 2 2020 19:52:53)

Hi -

I mess around trying to learn all different kinds of music, depending on my interest of
the day. Lately I have been working on learning some Yann Tiersen piano pieces transposed
to guitar. I just can't stay interested in any particular Flamenco Palos to get that good at it,
but I sure like listening to it. :) ForoFlamenco is the only guitar forum I revisit though, so have
been a member for a long time ...

My airplane stuff:

I was an Aircraft Electrician in The Navy and ever since getting out have been a pilot, and
aircraft builder (light planes) for a hobby. Currently work for a large International Bank and
thinking to retire early, and take up flight instructing as a part time job. I've been flying for
almost 30 years now. Probably my favorite kind of flying is gliders, but I don't have the time
to fly them as you need to spend a lot of time hanging around the field doing ground stuff
for every hour in the air (assembling gliders, helping drag them around, hook up the towplane,
etc, etc). Great sport, but lot's of time at the airport o do it.

Picture below is my complete and flying airplane, N85AE. I have a second one I have been
building, but having kids that are now teens has slowed down work on building it.

Jeff.


quote:

Jeff that is a pretty cool duet. I like it.

Btw, you still working in the aircraft stuff if I remember correctly?




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ernandez R -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 3 2020 5:39:08)

jeff,
I noted the N number user name and wondered.

I fly the mighty Tri Pacer, a 160 with floats and skis too... The Batplane!

HR



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n85ae -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 0:00:24)

Very Cool, similar hobbies!

Jeff



singlechange -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 2:53:25)

Very very cold pic!



devilhand -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 12:11:37)

I have a similar question. This is a famous solea falseta. This time 3 notes on high E string.
Sould I play all 3 notes with my ring finger? But it feels somehow weird. I wonder how is it done by maestros?
Or any suggestions?



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Johnc -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 12:39:43)

i-m-i



devilhand -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 14:57:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Johnc

i-m-i

I tried it. It looks like it's picado-driven. What if I wanted to play it with arpeggio like this? But as I mentioned above it must be wrong. Picado technique says always alternate between i and m. I thought the same must be true for arpeggio saying avoid playing multiple notes on a single string with the same finger. But I don't know if it's true.



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mark indigo -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 19:02:45)

First question is what is the audio source for this transcription? Does the original source audio play all three notes on the first string (highlighted) with the right hand, or use a slur?

In the part you shade yellow i pull off from the first fret to open, so for that part i use a, then m, then pull off.

Not picado rest stroke, I use free stroke throughout. Too many slurs. If i was going to use rest stroke I would play every note with right hand and not slur.

so for the whole segment I use p i m a m pull off, i on 2nd string, m 3rd string, i 4th string.

Can't remember the specific source i first learnt it from, but there must be dozens, maybe hundreds of recordings of this old chestnut, many of them played slightly differently.



kitarist -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 19:21:35)

quote:

What if I wanted to play it with arpeggio


If you want to keep it as arpeggio, do this - the highlighted portion (previously aaa) is now 'ami', as the second part of a regular pimami arpeggio:





ami on one string is also what you would do within flamenco tremolo (and indeed what classical tremolo is), so please no whining about this suggestion resulting in ami arpeggio being on one string - it is a very useful skill.

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Ricardo -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 19:42:32)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

What if I wanted to play it with arpeggio


If you want to keep it as arpeggio, do this - the highlighted portion (previously aaa) is now 'ami', as the second part of a regular pimami arpeggio:





ami on one string is also what you would do within flamenco tremolo (and indeed what classical tremolo is), so please no whining about this suggestion resulting in ami arpeggio being on one string - it is a very useful skill.


The end is wrong. On G string use m finger and i on the F on the D string so p falls immediately on low E. It’s very standard. Also this phrase is typical done where F on first string is a pull off but doubled by plucking holding F on the fourth string at the same time as F on first...and F continues to ring as the other notes are played as pull offs until i hits it again as described above. Of course that is assuming the typical compas expression of this as 16th notes starting on 7 such that the two F notes in octaves are accenting count 8.

If the phrase is meant as triplets starting on count 6, it would be nice to know that.

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kitarist -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 20:23:17)

quote:

The end is wrong. On G string use m finger and i on the F on the D string so p falls immediately on low E. It’s very standard.


I noticed that too; keeping the notes as shown here, I was playing that part as:



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devilhand -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 22:44:54)

Thanks guys. Helped me a lot.

quote:

First question is what is the audio source for this transcription? Does the original source audio play all three notes on the first string (highlighted) with the right hand, or use a slur?

There's no audio example for this.
I heard it somewhere and learnt the 3 note version without a slur because I liked the way it sounded.

quote:

so for the whole segment I use p i m a m pull off, i on 2nd string, m 3rd string, i 4th string.

You mean a on 2nd string as kitarist suggested?

quote:

If the phrase is meant as triplets starting on count 6, it would be nice to know that.

Could you have an audio or video example for triplets? The phrase I heard has no triplets. All are four 16th notes as you mentioned above. I always thought this falseta section is played only this way.

quote:

Also this phrase is typical done where F on first string is a pull off but doubled by plucking holding F on the fourth string at the same time as F on first...and F continues to ring as the other notes are played as pull offs until i hits it again as described above.

Thanks for the hint. I'll integrate it into my playing.

@kitarist
Your version looks good. I added golpe to the last beat 12. Do you think it's correct now?



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kitarist -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 4 2020 23:36:18)

quote:

You mean a on 2nd string as kitarist suggested?


No he doesn't. His is a version that has a F->E pull-off with m, so next can be i-m-i alternation instead of the ami that I had when there was no pull off and I had to use 'i' for the open-string E note.

quote:

Do you think it's correct now?


There are probably different versions in the double digits of this [part of a] falseta, so 'correct' refers more to 'lack of idiotic or non-flamenco fingerings' and then whether 'it makes flamenco sense as a sequence in its context'.



Ricardo -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 5 2020 14:58:41)

quote:

Could you have an audio or video example for triplets? The phrase I heard has no triplets. All are four 16th notes as you mentioned above. I always thought this falseta section is played only this way.


No because it is not how it is typically played, and since you admitted you didn’t pull this from some specific person I STRONGLY recommend you do the F to E on the first string as a PULL OFF, and further, add the F bass note on the 4th string. I COULD have imagined a triple phrase where that specific rhythm might (fast solea por buleria tempo) require you to articulate E-F-E without any pull off (in which case kitarist gave the better fingering option), but we can let that go after knowing this was not the case.

Wanted to add that I personally do the D-C-B pull offs on the second string with m finger NOT a finger, then repeat m finger on the third string. If you do this thing really fast you will see why that works best.



devilhand -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 5 2020 20:29:56)

quote:

I STRONGLY recommend you do the F to E on the first string as a PULL OFF, and further, add the F bass note on the 4th string.

I got why you mentioned triplets. It makes more sense now. From now on I'll do F-E pull-off. Thank you for your recommendation.

quote:

Wanted to add that I personally do the D-C-B pull offs on the second string with m finger NOT a finger, then repeat m finger on the third string. If you do this thing really fast you will see why that works best.

Which finger do you use for E-F pull-off?



Ricardo -> RE: Suggestions for Arpeggio? (Oct. 6 2020 1:22:58)

quote:

Which finger do you use for E-F pull-off?


In all honesty 99 out of 100 times I do a sextuplet fast pimami then it’s p and a together on the two F notes. But if I did your specific version it would also be m finger.



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