RE: soundportparty in my patio

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RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to buddytalk)

quote:

I own 2 of Ander's very fine guitars, negra and blanca. There is a 3rd
being built for me now with a soundport. I feel very fortunate to have
been introduced to Anders guitars. Whatever he wills I will agree wholeheartedly. To all of you who own a eliasson guitar (SALUTE).
It is truly a wonder that you can own a guitar as good as Anders in these
times and not have to sell the farm to do so.

Please note: This has not been a paid announcment.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 1:38:23

buddytalk

Posts: 20
Joined: Jun. 28 2009

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Guest)

Thank you Dominic,

Anders and I have never met..But after the first guitar (negra) I felt I
could trust not only his skills but his intuitiveness. Hench, a soundport!
'For me the player'.

please note: This has NOT been a paid announcement

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 2:08:13

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathulu

My take is both Anders and Tom can be hard heads. Tom can be condescending and I get the little digs that can piss off other luthiers, whether Tom sees it or not. Anders can say stuff that I would not say, far too hard in the sand. I would have found another way.

Anyways, apologies made and let's get on with normal discourse.

I'm actually pretty easy going when you get to know me and my way of dialog is sometimes not explanatory enough to point out the specifics of what or who is the main attraction. I'm a global thinker with most of my intellect and I can see that I need to be more specific about that issue so people won't think I'm referring to them directly.

As far as I can tell, I didn't attack anyones guitar making talent , as it was directed toward an appointment to the guitar as an added facility. I gave my opinion about it and this is all I meant to do. If you feel different, then feel free to show me my post that said different so I can correct it for future applications.

I don't mind being corrected if it is a righteous judgment. And btw, I have received a few private e-mails on this list and in my personal e-mail box that encourage me to keep posting as they like the idea of apposing thought about this issue.

But whatever the topic, I agree that I should be very careful and specific about my own opposing thoughts rather than give any impression to others on this list who might think it is directed to their person.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 4:37:41

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

I think that what makes it worst is that we are all getting involved taking sides..making into an even bigger thing...it seems like Tom wrote a honest apology (to be fair noone can ask for more then that) and is trying to make it work...lets allow them to do that, even if Anders is a litlle angry right now or over it...allow them space to work it out themselfs, they will eventually ..dont get involved or take sides..etc

BTW I GOT IT i just put the strings on and am playing it a litlle ...wow its so nice...as far as i am concerned theres absoluteley no negatives...the guitar sounds more stereo...hasent lost anything, feels more responsive, each note vibrates even more in the body of the guitar and comes out louder and more powerfull...and even if it is not louder it sounds louder to you. its certainly not quieter or sounds worst..

it can make a bad guitar into a ok guitar
a ok guitar into a good guitar
and a good guitar into an excellent guitar IMO...atleast as far as you can hear and feel

whatever your guitar was before it will be a litlle or perhaps even alot better after as far as you can tell...whatever u have it will take it up a nudge or 2...and thats not about making anyone right or agreeing with them..i wanted it and i paid for it..cause i wanted what was described to me and i was willing to take the risk

anyone trying to argue the benefits of this is fighting a losing batlle...cause if not now or next year ..it will eventually catch on even more with those that wanna get the absolute most out of whatever they have...its like arguing candles against lightbulbs...and even if it dosent catch on...to me its an improovement

the question is not "will it make it better" is what is important to you, do u want more volume for yourself...whats your priorities...what comes out of it or how it looks or the resale value..(not that a hole the size of a coin will change the appearance that much) but its up to you to decide whats important to you and what u can risk and what u cant

I am absoluteley not interested in convincing anyone who might be undecided to get this done ...everyone needs to decide for themselfs what they want ...and do it at their own discression...i am not going to guarantee each guitar maker or shop i dont know ...its everyones own fear or risk they need to deal with...but i love it and i aam glad i did it

My question is Tom ...will you stick to your guns no matter what ? even when everyone else has one or wants one or will you do ports ? the situation might not be as distant and as crazy as it probably sounds to you right now lol..never say never..change occours when you least expect it..weather u agree with it or not ...this is not a fashion change...to me it makes the instrument a litlle better however good it is to begin with..theres no instrument that is too good to benefit from this..weather its a litlle or a lot

I will take some photos and post some a bitt later...i wont record cause my recording gear its not setup and i got alot to do tonight

one thing i noticed...is that u never had so much volume in your face before it takes a litlle getting used to ...its like that first cigarete after a long period of non smoking..u get a litlle head spin lol its not a bad or overpowering thing...just not used to the notes feeling that close...instead if down and in front of you or to your down right they are all the sudden right under your nose

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 5:07:02

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Florian)

quote:

My question is Tom ...will you stick to your guns no matter what ? even when everyone else has one or wants one or will you do ports ? the situation might not be as distant and as crazy as it probably sounds to you right now lol..never say never..change occours when you least expect it..weather u agree with it or not ...this is not a fashion change...to me it makes the instrument a litlle better however good it is to begin with..theres no instrument that is too good to benefit from this..weather its a litlle or a lot

As you know, I've already agreed that the sound port gives some help to the player but this is not the issue with me. My relationship with the Spanish guitar spans a 50 year period and there are certain attractions to it that won't change for me personally.

I would also agree that dove tail joints to attach the neck to the box are certainly acceptable since they don't add or detract to the traditional appearance of the guitar.

But where I like the Spanish foot is that I have used it from the beginning of my building career and I like it better because it refers me to the whole unit being built, not a separation of parts that later on attaches together. I like to work on the unit as whole, not detached parts, in this respect.

And I've always thought of the guitar like I would the human anatomy, since it’s a living organism and very feminine in its qualities. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel uncomfortable with another hole in it. So, to me an extra hole looks too Picasso-esque:-)

Not like you may think but as a whole instrument it has its statement to make and I've tuned mine to be acceptable to most players; anyway to those who like my style. And with any new style we will have to wait and see what the general concensus turns out to be.

And I understand that builders will experiment to gain a better product, but my own feeling is that once the hole is made, there's not a very good way to reverse the trend if it falls out of favor, especially with a more expensive guitar. In other words, I feel this is a major alteration that a buyer will have to deal with as his own choice, and like the market investments that we make, sometimes it can be risky.

The upside to this is that we all enjoy improvement when we can get it, and since many guitars don't hold their new market value, it stands to reason that the sound port wouldn't detract that much for resale. This is my market opinion.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 7:03:23

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Florian)

quote:

anyone trying to argue the benefits of this is fighting a losing batlle...cause if not now or next year ..it will eventually catch on even more with those that wanna get the absolute most out of whatever they have...its like arguing candles against lightbulbs

Everything under the sun has been tried and abandoned. Tornavoz, elevated finger board, double back, adjustable neck, etc., etc.

Soundports are nothing new either and there is no magic about them. A change in guitar's voice is expected upon any extra hole made on the body, though you might get excited on first trying it and think it's the future. However be also prepared to abandon it.

For sometime Smallman-style top got popular and everybody was playing them, then things got cooled down. Smallman guitars definitely have their own niche market today though.

If you are excited about soundholes then wait til you try tornavoz.

When Tom says the traditional guitar is a complete work I understand and agree fully with him. The traditional guitar is the only design that has survived the test of times.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 7:31:13

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

And I've always thought of the guitar like I would the human anatomy, since it’s a living organism and very feminine in its qualities. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel uncomfortable with another hole in it.

well last time i counted...i think i counted 2 holes and there was nothing unfeminine about it

and i know websites to proove it !

but i fully respect your right to your own taste Tom and the fact that you will build it for people if they desire it says that pleasing your customers dosent come secondary to your views and i think thats excellent

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 7:32:36

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Mike_Kinny)

quote:

Everything under the sun has been tried and abandoned. Tornavoz, elevated finger board, double back, adjustable neck, etc., etc.

Soundports are nothing new either and there is no magic about them. A change in guitar's voice is expected upon any extra hole made on the body, though you might get excited on first trying it and think it's the future. However be also prepared to abandon it.

For sometime Smallman-style top got popular and everybody was playing them, then things got cooled down. Smallman guitars definitely have their own niche market today though.

If you are excited about soundholes then wait til you try tornavoz.

When Tom says the traditional guitar is a complete work I understand and agree fully with him. The traditional guitar is the only design that has survived the test of times.

ofcourse i am open minded to all possibilities...all i know is that i absoluteley love it ( i havent stoped playing it for a sec to take a photo to upload it lol just enjoying it too much) and am glad i did it and am almost kicking myself for not knowing about earyler...now i am just one guitarist...just like i love it there might be others who feel the same.....to me its better...so for someone who is looking for the same thing i was, more volume for me...to try and denie this is a losing batlle...i am not sure that i can ever go back ...gonna wanna do this to every guitar i own

ofcourse i cant predict the future or what everyone is going to do..same as anyone else...many airoplane designs were tested before some were used...some changes get picked up and some dissaspear...that dosent necesarely mean that the plane will always stay the same..

the classical guitar didnt always look like the guitar we now know as "classical" i am pretty sure it looked different

the only thing certain about the future is that nothing ever stays the same...even if it did for the last 100 , 200 or 500 years

sometimes all it takes is one guy or one event...noone used cajon in flamenco before Paco did...now its a standard in every show...if Paco decided to try a guitar with soundport tomarow and did a concert i bet atleast half of the guitarists out there would want one

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 7:49:29

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Guest)

quote:

i havent stoped playing it for a sec to take a photo to upload it lol just enjoying it too much

ok and right after saying that i tought i should stop and take some photos lol just becuse when u know theres something u have to do its always in the back of your mind until u do it...it annoys me...

its night here and i am using the webcam to take photos...this is as good a quality as i can get at night...even with the light on and a lamp on it

my friend wanted to keep it longher to make a black litlle circle line around the port edge that matches the sides of the body but there was no way i was gonna go another night without the guitar...but i might still do it in the future

i am not 100 % sure but i might just be the first flamenco guy in australia to get one ....lets see if guitarrist friends that try it will like it and get one or not...as far as how good it feels to me it dosent compare to anything of anyones elses that i have ever tryied before...regardless of the price or the brand...and thats 100 % no bull ...just my opinion

i am more then happy, thanks Anders for bringing it up and thanks Jason for the experiment

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 8:25:49

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

And I've always thought of the guitar like I would the human anatomy, since it’s a living organism and very feminine in its qualities. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel uncomfortable with another hole in it. So, to me an extra hole looks too Picasso-esque:-)

That is a much better explanation Tom - one that resonates (if you'll excuse the pun). I prefer that to the style which insinuates against the motives of those who adopt ports.

Florian, I am all for adding more ooomph - if you look at my experiments with HDR imaging in the "totally, totally off-topic" thread and could see what lurks beneath the skin of my Mustang - all upgraded, more horses, even swapped the original engine because it was lame. Trad fans hate me. It's still in Spain unfortunately.

This has got 8 huge ports at the front and two great big ones at the back

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 8:50:59

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Florian, I am all for adding more ooomph -

ofcourse ...why setlle for less when it is possible to have more.....is the same reason i upgraded my computer...the old one still did what i needed it to do but this one does it faster...and it was there...eazy enough to get

why setlle for less response and volume when u can have more on what you allready have now and its eazy , cheap and fast to do...if something makes you enjoy playing your instrument even 1% more on top of what you allready enjoy its worth doing imo and for the record to me feels like i am enjoying it atleast 50% more on top of whatever i was enjoying it before

but i am not trying to promote anything or anybody...i am just really happy with my decision and cant belive the difference...i am one happy litlle guitarrist tonight..something so simple made me enjoy my guitar even more...and the volume is only half the reason...it feels lighter and more responsive..

am courious...anyone else thinking about getting one ? at the risk of overexagerating lol...it feels like 2 days ago i play a guitar that was worth $5000 and today $20.000

not that i ever played a $20000 guitar before ... but i cant imagine myself enjoying it that much more then i am this right now ..

and thats all il say ..!! i have said it..

i am happy !! I cant belive Jason had it, knew how it felled and played it so cool...if anybody asks me i will tell them " just shut up and get it...however much u are enjoying your guitar now..u will enjoy it even more after..simple ..i am 99.9% sure...worst case scenario you will feel or hear no difference to what it was which is impossible imo"

lol I keep telling myself i will stop saying how much i love it ...then i keep adding to it lol ok i can tell you guys are bored of mee saying how happy i am...so il shut up

Btw... thats a very very sexy car you pimp you

its absoluteley beautifull...i think i want one of those too

i am not a huge car guy but that i like alot

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 8:55:05

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Guest)

U wont hear another word out of me

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 10:07:46

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Florian)

Ok one last one !! i pitty the foul who dont got one

serious...il stop before il exagerate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 10:08:52

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Guest)

ok...all those of you without a soundport are starting to pi*s me off now for beeing so stubborn

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 10:39:20

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Florian)

One of my students just had one put one in his Yamaha.
He has been reading all of this stuff, perhaps he will jump in and offer his impression of the effects on a cheap guitar. Mr. H? are you out there?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 15:27:11

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

see what lurks beneath the skin of my Mustang - all upgraded, more horses, even swapped the original engine because it was lame.

Nice car Simon. My aunt bought one of these new in the 1960's. It was the first sports car marketed to women. She loved it and still talks about to this day--she even has a framed picture of it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 16:14:07

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire

One of my students just had one put one in his Yamaha.
He has been reading all of this stuff, perhaps he will jump in and offer his impression of the effects on a cheap guitar. Mr. H? are you out there?

Who cut the hole? George at The Berkeley Music Exchange?

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Upgraded Yamaha CG171SF
The Guitar Student Journal

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 16:50:43

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to GuitarVlog)

Glenn Canin did while my student was visiting and inquiring about ordering a guitar.

J

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 17:06:18

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire
Glenn Canin did while my student was visiting and inquiring about ordering a guitar.

Let us know how it turns out and what you think of it (if you get to play it).

Maybe I'll ask Kenny Hill to cut a hole in my Yamaha when I take my Hill guitar down to Ben Lomond for its golpeador installation.

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Upgraded Yamaha CG171SF
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 18:10:42

tocaor.andres

Posts: 12
Joined: Jun. 18 2009
From: SACRAMENTO. CA

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Guest)

HELLO JASON AND EVERYBODY HERE AT FORO. I WAS REALLY SURPRISED AFTER GLENN DRILLED THE HOLE IN THE YAMAHA. THE GUITAR IS MORE FUN TO PLAY. THE SOUND IS BRIGHTER AND IN YOUR FACE. I WOULD DEFINITELY RECOMMEND THE SOUND PORT TO ANY ONE THINKING ABOUT IT.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 18:18:44

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to tocaor.andres)

There you have it. Can you post a pic?

Thanks Andres

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 18:34:28

tocaor.andres

Posts: 12
Joined: Jun. 18 2009
From: SACRAMENTO. CA

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Guest)

BY THE WAY. WENT BY GLENN CANIN HOUSE LAST WEEKEND TO CHECK OUT SOME OF HIS GUITARS.

WOW WHERE DO I START. HE WAS KIND ENOUGH TO ASK A COUPLE OF HIS CUSTOMERS TO LET ME TRY SOME OF HIS GUITARS.

FIRST WAS A NEGRA CEDER TOP, BRAZILIAN ROSEWOOD BACK AND SIDES. HE HAD JUST FINISHED THIS GUITAR A COUPLE OF DAYS EARL ER. WHAT A BEAUTIFUL INSTRUMENT. BIG BASS PERFECT NOTATION, A SUPER FAST NECK AND VERY POWERFULL.

NEXT WAS A SPRUCE TOP NEGRA WITH BREATHTAKING BRAZILIAN ROSEWOOD. THIS GUITAR WAS GREAT, INSTANT POWER AND SPARKLING TREBLES. I FELL IN LOVE WITH THIS ONE. THE CRAFTSMANSHIP WAS PERFECT AND THE FRENCH POLISH WAS JUST RIGHT.

AFTER I PLAYED THESE MONSTERS HE TOOK ME TO HIS SHOP TO SHOW ME SOME OF HIS WOOD SELECTION. INDIAN, BRAZILIAN, CYPRESS OF TOP QUALITY. I MADE MY MIND ON A BLANCA PEGHEAD MADE OF CYPRESS FROM A TREE THAT FELL IN SAN FRANCISCO PARK.

JASON WAS NICE ENOUGH TO LET ME PLAY HIS BLANCA. IT IS A POWERHOUSE, IT WAS CLEAR TO ME WHY JASON WAS USING HIS GUITARS.

PS. JASON I SAW THE WOOD GLENN IS USING FOR YOUR NEXT GUITAR. I GOT THE PERFECT NAME FOR IT. EL Diablo.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 19:14:06

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to tocaor.andres)

ok i took photos during the day...they came out better...il take some at sunset too and compare

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 21:49:09

Kubase

Posts: 72
Joined: May 20 2009

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Florian)

quote:

am courious...anyone else thinking about getting one ? at the risk of overexagerating lol...it feels like 2 days ago i play a guitar that was worth $5000 and today $20.000

Sorry, couldn't resist!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 22:28:20

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Guest)

No Ho in my guitar....it'll only cost ya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 22:49:12

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to kozz)

quote:

Sorry, couldn't resist!

theres some european in me...its what i do lol

ofcourse i dont wanna shuve it down anyones troat...but i am positivily happy (and thats an understatement) about it myself ...thats 100 % honest...il reccomend it to anyone that asks me ....or maybe even dosent lol

it almost feels like its my duty to inform you guys ...but up to you all if you going to take my word for it or no

noone can say i kept it a secret..ultimateley i dont gain anything if someone gets one or not..i dont have a guitar shop and u are all allover the world for me to be doing this for my friends shop...

so my reaction is 100% genuine...even if i kid around or over do it as i ussualy do

my guitar guy wanted to take only 30 bucs for it, cause hes a friend..but inssisted he took 50 atleast cause i was so happy..i never EVER volunteer more money

Dominic...i am not exagerating man ..get one !! try it out on a cheap guitar first if you worried...but try it, you will love it...call Steve ask him...him or I wouldnt **** you..its everything i wrote it is and more...i tried everyones guitar in Adelaide ..even more expensive ones..i wouldnt trade the way mine feels and sounds to me now for anybodys

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2009 22:58:44

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Guest)

Are you printing chord charts in the bohemian looking pic with the printer? :-) The port came out great. Doesn't look out of place to me, the guitar looks stunning.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 0:55:31

Guest

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Florian)

quote:

i am not exagerating man ..get one

Well it sounds like you are loving it so im definatly curious. Btw i just got a new blanca the other day, made by Darren Hippner. Its based on a santos, all i can say is the instrument is spectacular, he is quite a gifted builder. Rasquados on this thing is like a dream, perfect amount of crunch. It feels like my rasquados etc got better overnight. Trebles are sublime, good mids and bass, overall very well balanced.

I emailed him to let him know how happy i was with it, and asked him if it stood out to him as a gem. He remembered the guitar and said its amongst the best he has built.

I wont be putting a hole in that just yet

Incidently i just finished a recording session for a movie soundtrak with it about 2 hours ago. I do have the audio but i cant use this or post it on the internet untill after the movie comes out. It was only for the end of one scene so its not long, but the director was really happy with the track after we finished, he said it was exactly what he invisaged for the scene(it has jazz keyboard in it too).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2009 1:46:00