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I have recovered almost completely from the skin issue I had during 2022 to 2024. A bout of dermatitis that made it impossible to play bar chords. Now the back to building my technique, to try to make it better than ever.
A difficulty in making clear sound from the B string while barring is that the bone in index finger is prominent between the palm and first knuckle. It’s just enough to trap the treble E string quite satisfactorily, but allows for the B right next to the E to ride higher in the crevice of the first knuckle.
The result is that the B E and G can’t be pulled to the fingerboard with equal stopping weight behind the fret. The E and G strings press nicely and ring beautifully when sounded, but the B ranges from a convincing ring to a covered ‘tapado’ like sound with a modicum of ring.
I’m messing around with different subtle adjustments of the index finger and can manage a good overall sound, but the big difficulty is playing notes with the left pinky while holding the bar, extending the pinky to grab notes two to four frets higher than the bar causes my index to shift into a worse ‘tapado’ sound on B.
Does anyone else have trouble with bars?
Let’s talk about it.
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RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
Perhaps Kai has some useful tips for you, maestro bananas.
My thoughts - put a capo on 5 and play some barre chords for a day or two. Then go down to 4 and play barre chords for a day or two. Then go down to 3, and so on...
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
I have barre problems too. I try to think of each note of the barre as an individual note and try to adjust my barre finger (normally index) accordingly as I play each note to get it as clear as possible. It sort of works for me. Also I try to let gravity pull my barre finger downward so I don't have to exert so much pressure by squeezing, if that makes sense.
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
I recently cycled through some videos on this and one of the classical people mentioned something new to me: don't use a bulging bone on a string because that makes it harder for the flesh to push down the other strings. I am going to try Kai's exaggerated version of targeting different strings because I am still inconsistent and I sometimes wonder whether your finger has to become kind of like an antennae that can feel what's working and not working.
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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
9 out of 10 times there is an issue, it is a combo of thumb, wrist, and elbow placement. In order to properly demonstrate and troubleshoot, we need concrete examples of what is not playable. I remember someone challenged a chord in the "All flamenco chords in Tab" thread, that it was "not playable", which of course was not true. But we need something to work with.
Here, is everybody good with this half barre thing first of all?
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
9 out of 10 times there is an issue, it is a combo of thumb, wrist, and elbow placement. In order to properly demonstrate and troubleshoot, we need concrete examples of what is not playable. I remember someone challenged a chord in the "All flamenco chords in Tab" thread, that it was "not playable", which of course was not true. But we need something to work with.
Here, is everybody good with this half barre thing first of all?
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
nice playing :) I have a small advice, you might want to try it out. I think it's an endurance problem with the barre and the stretching combined. So try this: get the barre on the 7th fret and the middle finger on the 8th fret G string, this will remain constant.
Now put the pinky on the 12th fret.
You see the 12th fret is a fret higher than where the pinky actually needs to be so this will be even more of a challenge. But you don't have to get this arpeggio perfect. Stay on it and try to make it as clean as possible for some time. If you stay on this fret, your fingers will get used to the stretching and playing on the 11th fret will be a breeze.
The idea behind this is simple. Whenever I have something difficult to play, I make it more difficult. Then the actual thing gets easier.
About the barre: the index finger needs to be protruding from the edge a bit more, I feel.
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
OK, I watched this one time through and here is what I observed:
-when you were reaching for the first string with your pinky finger, -you’re rotating your whole hand clockwise from your position -so your index finger on the first and second strings is shifting away from the optimal fretting position towards the headstock -you were also using the pad of your pinky finger tip joint rather than the tip. -If you use the tip, you will find your hand rotates back into the proper position
something like that.
If watch your video again with what I’m saying it might be more clear?
Hope this helps.
HR
ps. You might need to integrate more of that “Andalusian Hand Jive”
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
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From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
No, the issue seems to be that you apply the pressure more from flat surface of your Index, whereas you should bend the Index a little bit to the left side, so that the side of your finger is applying more pressure. Ah ...maybe difficult to explain, I might make a short video later today when home
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to Arash)
Stephen, two things:
1- Honestly, what you're playing sounds fine. :P It doesn't sound too muffled.
2- I agree with Arash. Roll the index finger / barre finger towards the nut so you're not forming the bar with your finger totally flat against the fingerboard. That way you get the outer side of your finger (the thumb side) making contact with the strings, so there is less of the fleshy part of your finger (with the bumps / grooves) and more of the "straight line" (see image below with red line) bony side of your finger making contact with the strings. That provides a more even surface, *and*, it is a smaller surface area thereby increasing the pressure while maintaining the same force.
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Posts: 16129
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
under the held B 7th fret barre, experiment a bit with C# with the ring finger instead of the C natural. It gets your hand to instinctively (hopefully!) flatten and stretch as needed. Because the C natural allows your fingers to "bunch" together, it is the "un-bunching" that shifts and moves the index barre as you reach for the D# and you are losing the "grip". So experiment with the C# instead of C nat, maintaining the chord posture as pinky reaches. If you still can't get the B string clear with the C# then you have to look at the thumb closer. Mine is almost directly under the middle finger D# third string when I do this and it does not move for the reach. Make sure it doesn't move or again that shifts the weight of the index and you might lose the B string again. So then if all that checks out what happens with C natural is you have to pivot slightly the index angle to get it clean. The thumb acts like a bolted swivel, staying in that position under the middle finger as your whole arm shifts to change the angle of the index. You need to practice this shifting alone as you sound the B string. If you are doing it correct you should even notice the change of PITCH as you shift the index barre from angled to more straight (the F# will be going flat as you shift towards the bridge to get the reach, where as when you are shifted back for the cramped C natural, the F# goes a hair sharp). The D# on the third string might also change pitch slightly. Over time you need to ease the grip so that this pitch change is not dramatic or very noticeable.
Last thing, in your video your fingers are so cramped that your bass note B is not being fretted clearly and dies out as your index drifts over the fret wire. You can watch it happen, so it is another thing to start getting the Bass note B to ring longer. Just don't squeeze too hard (the instinct to get notes ringing longer).
RE: Barre chord unclean, ideas for r... (in reply to estebanana)
You’re just going have to press with your index really hard. You’ll get used to it eventually. Yeah I know it can be difficult on the thick fingerboard of the classical guitar. Good luck
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