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RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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 RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Stu)
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Think of of this way: if you count to 12 when you play you have keep 12 numbers in mind and whether they have an accent or not. Too much info at once, and with a palo that always throws in half compas' everywhere.
You really only need to think 1,2,3,1,2,3 or 1,2,1,2,1,2. When you do this you'll find fast palos like bulerias a lot easier than a super slow soleares where you can get lost a lot more easily.
In Spain often they count 1 - and 2 - and 3 - 4 - 5 -
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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
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Date Jan. 29 2009 2:47:45
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to cathulu)
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quote:
Damn you, damn you all to hell! I started to practice this today and got the first four chords right at least , and the arpeggio stuff is gonna be OK, but the descending falseta at the end of page two - it is so syncopated it is killing me! Aarrghhh!!!!
Three parts:
Arpeggios are six times normal compás 3,6,8,10,12
Just at the start of the picado it's three times the half compas 8,10,12
Then from the thumb stroke of A just before the chords are played again the normal compás once ending on 10.
Try listening to the original like this - hope it helps and doesn't confuse you more 
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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
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Date Jan. 29 2009 4:49:41
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Stu)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stu
I just been watching Moraito play Buleriando on the encuentro dvd and he taps every other beat. 12,2,4,6,8,10. so I've been doing this and something very cool seems to be happening???
Am I getting somewhere??
Stu,
I’m actually invloved in the beginner’s challenge, so I really shouldn’t even be on this thread…..
Re: the foot-tapping, I hear ya. Several months ago I spent the better part of an entire weekend buckling down and working that problem out once and for all (at a basic, initial level, at least). I read through all those 7-8 page foot-tapping threads you mentioned, I duct-taped the metronome to my forehead, I laughed, I cried, I tapped and tapped, and in the end I settled on that every other/even beat tapping you’ve picked up from Moraito. To me it’s the most natural approach-feels good; makes sense mentally, and it tends to be pretty “all-purpose”. It doesn’t always work for every feel, though, so sometimes a tap-1-2-tap-4-5-tap-7-tap-9-tap-11 is my second choice.
That tap-tap tap-tap one John mentioned is rough. Better for a cry than a laugh…. 
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Date Jan. 29 2009 16:39:52
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to John O.)
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i think it doesn't really matter what counting you use, 'cos it's a means to an end
i learnt to count in 12's, with 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 foot tapping
then i played a lot with a dancer who did lot of jerez buleria with what we called "odd sixes" and Ricardo calls "half compas" (i think claude worms transcriptions use that term too, but we didn't know, so we made a name and called it "odd six"!).
so i had to get my head round 12=6, and that 4=10, etc. and mostly tapped every other beat ie. 12,2,4 and/or 6/8/10
i did a lot of counting! (eg.the arpegio in the moraito falseta, 12&1, &2&, 3&4, &5&, etc.)
lots of people, especially spanish, said not to count, but without counting i was totally lost.... but i did have one really good teacher who said that if you haven't grown up with it you probably gonna have to count...
...but what about counting "dum--de,dum--de,dum-" (12--&,2--&,4)
or "chicken tikka chicken tikka chicken tikka" 12,&,1,&,2,&,3,&,4,&,5,&
or "apricot, pineapple, apple, orange, lemon" (12,3,6,8,10)
ok, i'm not being totally seriousl here, but the point is you could use anything!
notice how dance teachers use verbal sounds like "taki-taki-ta" etc., it's a form of "counting" but it's a step on from counting with numbers
as i see it, the people that say "learn to count" are right
the people that say "count this way" are right
the people who say "count that way" are right
and the people that say "don't count" are right too
if you can't "just feel it" (maan! ) then learn to count, but eventually the counting becomes just rhythmic sounds, becomes the rhythm, or what we call "feeling it" (which is really a "poetry" or fancy name for a kind of knowing)
and btw i learnt to foot tap the 1,2 4,5 7,8 10,11 by using a programmable metronome to click on those beats only, and playing to it, and in a short time i was able to tap my foot to those clicks and play along with it....
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Date Jan. 30 2009 1:54:14
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)
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quote:
I want to tell, that Im in the wrong class here. I dont want to be the selfish high nosed idiot, but it would really be unfair if I would do this challenge.
So, I will only participate in the advanced challenge
That's very decent of you Doit!
All of the challenges are really for those who find the level of material higher than they are currently playing, be it in rhythm, aire, or technique.
Otherwise it ceases to be a fun competition for everyone else.
Florian's original idea was to give students a bit of impetus to aim for something that challenges them.
Bursche....are you listening?
All I can say that if it appears obvious that somebody is handling any of the set pieces with supreme ease and style, then I will award my marks according to the highest criteria and nitpick every detail and subtract marks accordingly, as I hope other judges will too!
cheers,
Ron
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Date Jan. 30 2009 5:35:23
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