RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread

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bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Bursche....are you listening?

But there isn't an advanced challenge so far, is it?

quote:

All of the challenges are really for those who find the level of material higher than they are currently playing, be it in rhythm, aire, or technique.

Ok, Maybe this one isn't suitable for me then, even though Moraito's groove is actually quite a challenge for me to copy

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 6:10:14

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

Hi bursche,

No, not yet, I think Flo is wanting to give it a test run first with these two catagories.

I know what you mean about Moraito's groove etc.
Actually even advanced players could get something from BOTH these pieces if you look at the detail, but that's not really what the essence of the challenge is about in the way I've understood it anyway.

At the end of the day it's Florian's call.
He's organising and managing it all, so it's up to him!
He's the Boss!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 6:33:55

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Ron.M)

I don't really know how the other participants play, but I think I will continue learning my Vicente Alegría then - thats a hell of a challenge.

(It is "Maestro Sanlúcar", I'm sure you know it and love it like all of the remaining early work by Vicente, Ron)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 6:42:56

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to srshea)

quote:

There's at least one other really long one out there, but here's one I have bookmarked:

Bulerias Foot Tapping

JeeeZZuSSS!!!

What a thread!!

I'd fogotten all about that one!

A Classic.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 7:51:53

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

JeeeZZuSSS!!!

What a thread!!

I'd fogotten all about that one!

A Classic.

Yeah, I was a bit reticent about reintroducing that one for fear of derailing the current good vibes around here, but there IS a lot of good stuff to be gleaned from that thread if you can wade through all the, ah… healthy disagreement without getting too lost. And I was serious about what I said about your posts being particularly helpful. I don’t remember if it was that thread specifically or some other marathon bulerias counting/tapping/feeling thread, but when some seemingly simple and straight forward ideas and concepts became murky and confusing through repetition and heated argument, your comments were really good for breaking things down in a concise and understandable way. So, cheers to YOU, sir.

A classic, indeed…..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 8:35:44

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to srshea)

quote:

breaking things down in a concise and understandable way.

That's only because I'm trying to explain it all to MYSELF, Adam!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 9:05:52

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

12 - tap - tap - 3 - tap - tap - 6 - tap - tap - 9 - tap - tap
while accenting the 3, 6, 8, 10, 12.
I've seen him doing this too.

I would advise any intermediate student NOt to try this.

Pimientito and Doit are right - it won't help - it was more or less a joke...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 9:57:16

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I dont want to be the selfish high nosed idiot, but it would really be unfair if I would do this challenge.

Awww, so Doit's too good for the intermediate...

Joking!

I agree and will do the same. I think with this falseta there are things even pros can work on, fine little details. It would be unfair though to have a prize go to somebody who'd be much more challenged by a higher level.

I'd rather work on something for hours and days to get it right, that's how it should be - it is called a "challenge"...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 10:03:12

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

I am not participating because this month i dont have enough time....but one thing:

Dont underestimate Moraito!
Its not only the Groove and Aire, etc...
I wanne see one of you who can play the continous rasgueso exactly like him! (I mean that special mix of Shrammm-Shrammm sound + differentiated, where you hear each strum!).....it is NOT easy!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 11:06:22

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Arash)

Dude, it's easy. I don't know why he's so popular, I can do it better than him. I'll show you tomorrow

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 11:52:25

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

Well, Moraito is one of the most popular players for cante. His playing is unique and Im sure his style became very characteristic for buleria de jerez in general. Hes one of the first players with the school of jerez who managed to become also popular with playing solo. Hes pretty innovative and has a lot of ideas.

Im not far as groovy as Moraito.. thats for shure. But this falseta is not the peak of his level... Whereas I really think John should stick with the intermediate challenge.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 13:11:25

Güiro

Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 22 2008
From: Colorado

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Florian)

any idea how the final rajeo should go?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2009 19:32:20

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1893
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

i believe the challenge really sits if you play the whole thing, these are not the most difficult falsetas to remember...of course you'll be judged on the first part of the piece to be fair, but i'm planning to record the whole bulería just for my own satisfaction...

on another note, i had a most positive experience yesterday, i was asked to play soleá for a bailaora who's doing a masterclass here and i never played soleá for baile before, somehow i missed that...i was amazed at all the tempo changes, i never played soleá this slow before and after that the tempo went crazy...i possibly learned more from this hour and a half than from a whole book of falsetas! (exaggarating :))

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 0:42:50

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Güiro)

quote:

any idea how the final rajeo should go?

what exactly do you mean??

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 1:13:53

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Whereas I really think John should stick with the intermediate challenge.

EY!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 1:23:30

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

quote:

i believe the challenge really sits if you play the whole thing, these are not the most difficult falsetas to remember...of course you'll be judged on the first part of the piece to be fair, but i'm planning to record the whole bulería just for my own satisfaction...

on another note, i had a most positive experience yesterday, i was asked to play soleá for a bailaora who's doing a masterclass here and i never played soleá for baile before, somehow i missed that...i was amazed at all the tempo changes, i never played soleá this slow before and after that the tempo went crazy...i possibly learned more from this hour and a half than from a whole book of falsetas! (exaggarating :))

Good post! Yes I also learn a lot form playing for dance. The best is mindreading. They always want me to play exactly like the CD which they use to compoese theyr coeogrphy. All the Llamadas and coplas... and gimmicks here and there... The funny thing is. I never heared their specific CD track..and they dont give it to me..

Another thing is, that you become immune to any kind of insults in front of a dancing class with 20 members.. hahaha... The best one is when they do compases with 11 or 14 hits...dont get it. And tell me yelling hey play correctly man! Hahaha...

I could tell you stories....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 5:20:17

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1893
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

we're going off topic a bit, but i just have to add, that i was very fortunate this time, the lady's a pro with a good sense of understanding the guitarist (it seemed), i had complete freedom on the musical side, she danced the coreography twice so that i could understand the tricks in it - and it was a damn difficult one -, she asked if i'm ok with it, said yes of course, not that i completely did really :) - but it really was a good experience and there was no chance of miscounted compáses...

ok let's go back to the intermediate challenge topic :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 6:51:39

peghead48

Posts: 36
Joined: Oct. 16 2008
From: Cheltenham

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

As far I can tell, the tabs are different from the recording in a couple of places.

But then again I could be wrong

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 10:50:43

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

quote:

As far I can tell, the tabs are different from the recording in a couple of places.

But then again I could be wrong

No, you are right. That was the reason to think, Florian played it. Its also played in the 4th fret instead of the 3rd. I mean,.. the level of the sample is shurely reachable. And Florian is not the worst player. I just wondered about the good recording-sound. I want to know where the sample is from!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 11:11:09

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

Well, I haven't been listening to Moraito's version but I have been studying Flo's version, and his does not match the tablature exactly either. So there is some liberty on how you approach the piece - it is flamenco for goodness sake!

For example, I will most likely have to do the triplet rasgueos starting on the beat using the standard p, ma, p as I cannot get the same speed or evenness with i and a alone.

As it is I will be slower than the normal speed, I hope to be faster than the slow version though! I just want to keep a good groove, that will be the most important thing.

This is a good challenge for me and I hope I don't suck.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 11:48:13

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Well for my intellect they are very difficult to rememeber!

PS No one should submit more than the falseta in question so that everyone is anonymous for the judging.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 11:52:06

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

PS regarding Flo's sample, it does not have a count-in so it is pretty difficult to use at least for me. It would be nice if there were some quiet ticks on the one beat of where the intro chords are played so you can know when to jump in with the palmas.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 31 2009 11:55:08

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

Well, I haven't been listening to Moraito's version but I have been studying Flo's version, and his does not match the tablature exactly either

I've just been listening to the moraito CD this morning. I didn't realise that the upload was Flo playing and not Moraito. First...wow thats great playing Flo.
Second, a couple of (hopefully) helpful hints.

Peghead is correct, the tab doesnt exactly match the Flos audio sample but it doesnt matter too much. In fact it doesnt exactly match the moraito CD either. You will not be judged on a faithful reproduction of the tab but on compas, aire and technique.

Flo has resolved the timing in the descending picado run much better than the tab suggests so I would copy that

Its also easier if you practise without the ligado ornaments in the descending run. Add them later when you are more confident with the timing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2009 2:11:15

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

I've just been listening to the moraito CD this morning. I didn't realise that the upload was Flo playing and not Moraito. First...wow thats great playing Flo.

So that is flo playing??? for SURE???? where is he anyway??

so is he entering the intermediate challenge??

I hope not

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2009 2:24:48

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

I've just been listening to the moraito CD this morning. I didn't realise that the upload was Flo playing and not Moraito. First...wow thats great playing Flo.

Jeez...I thought it WAS Moraito!

If that's Flo playing then it's absolutely brilliant!
Just EVERYTHING is great!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2009 3:19:11

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Jeez...I thought it WAS Moraito

Me too...then I noticed that Flos upload has a suggestion of golpe during the opening 4 chords. He also accents the picado run differently to moraito and omits some of the ornaments. I had to listen very carefully to both though to figure it out.

Actually Flos version is easier to study than Moraitos. I'll tab Flos version of the picado run if you like....I've decided the Faucher one isnt correct.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2009 3:43:14

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

Oh my god.
But what about the sound quality??? Flos records used to be dark sounding? This one is the opposite!
He fooled everyone, and now he is offline

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2009 3:58:02

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

I think the upload is from Moraito.
It must be a different recording than the Buleriando from Morao y Oro CD (maybe from a Live recording or something) but i think it is Moraito and not Flo.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2009 4:10:40

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to Arash)

Well whoever it is they get 30 points. Flo come on tell us...is that you playing?
If not where did you get the recording?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2009 4:15:28

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Intermediate Thread (in reply to bursche)

Ok.. as I wrote twice. I can imagine that Florian played the sample, because hes a good player.
But coz of the soundquality, it cant be him. So I predict,.. its not him playing in the sample. (Or I will eat a broom!! haha)
Why is he offline after this big start? It could be that he still is mad about the foro as I read in a thread 2 weeks ago. Could it be that he started the challenge and mobilized all the members only to jump of when its running, to show all people that hes done with the foro? As I know him also via PMs hes a really nice guy. So, I dont think hes playing evil games.

I hope hes back before the deadline of the challenge!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 1 2009 4:19:08