RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist

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[Poll]

NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist

after playing for baile 10 years and cante ten years

8% (3)

Once they have mastered compas

13% (5)

once they have mastered all flamenco techniques and compas

16% (6)

once they play 'la cucaracha' and yell ole at the end

13% (5)

when they play with true aire

22% (8)

when they can play 'la feria' just like juan martin

5% (2)

once theyve ripped off a car with some gypsies

5% (2)

once they wear the frilly shirts and sing 'po dom pom pom'

2% (1)

once they become a 'guiri in denial'

0% (0)

after completing a 16 hour shift in the captain beefcakes factory

11% (4)

Total Votes : 36

(last vote on : Dec. 23 2015 16:38:33)

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sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

absolutly noone is saying that here,

Then what do you mean? All im saying that in spain cante accompaniment is essential part of the formation as a flamenco guitarist. Thats all.

quote:

Anyway, yeah Paco, great because he knows cante? Ok sure that is part of it, especially the creative part.

Yes and i think thats a pretty important part

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:25:07

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

no, u said all outsiders have low standards.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:28:29

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

no, u said all outsiders have low standards.

No i said outiders seem to disqualify the accompanist part in the formation.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:29:43

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

I am saying that YOU and the 10 flamenco people u asked , are not in a position to make that call.

things are not always black and white, we are talking more about who has the right to call themselfs a flamenco guitarist.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:30:09

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

these r your exact words

quote:

Well that could change if people had a bit higher standards abroad and stopped defining flamenco guitarist as something ottmar liebert also could fit.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:31:26

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

things are not always black and white, we are talking more about who has the right to call themselfs a flamenco guitarist.

And im saying that playing with singers is a part of the formation in becoming that. If you dont agree, fine, i wont call you names for that opinion, and i expect the same courtesy back.

quote:

Well that could change if people had a bit higher standards abroad and stopped defining flamenco guitarist as something ottmar liebert also could fit.

Yes ottmar dont play with singers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:31:52

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Well that could change if people had a bit higher standards abroad and stopped defining flamenco guitarist as something ottmar liebert also could fit.

a little offensive, dont u think?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:32:37

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

hey hey , i never called u any names, and never would, i keeped a cool head trough out all this conversation.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:33:31

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

a little offensive, dont u think?

I dont even think ottmar himself thinks that thats offensive actually. He doesnt call himself a flamenco guitarist, other people do.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:34:20

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

a glamenco guitarist.

Flamenco guitarist on sunset strip in Hollywood 1982
plays a pink guitar wears a fur coat, mascara and has a big hair

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:34:43

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

i dont care how good u r at guitar...u lost my respect.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:34:49

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

I love accompanying when it’s someone I feel comfortable with, but not if I have to suffer, and I have just as much fun playing solo as accompanying. In order to be a good flamenco soloist you have to have played for 30,000 singers.

http://www.deflamenco.com/entrevistas/emiliomaya/indexi.jsp

Now then, what would you regard this statment as?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:41:08

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

sonikete, your my idol. I want to be u

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:43:29

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

whats that got to do with the price of eggs ?

lol

hes not talking about the right o call yourself a flamenco guitarist.

hes talking about beeing a good soloist.

Any more quotes of what other people said ?

I am scared to ask you what time it is or its gonna take you 5 hours to search the net to find out what time Manolo Sanlucar said it is

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:43:46

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

I feel foreign aficionados come on a bit stronger with it than Spaniards or Gypsies, sort of like because they are embarrased about "Ottmar". Trying to break those ties, or shed that skin to become more "flamenco" as possible.

It's not just Ottmar (who?). It's difficult not to sound pseudo-flamenco when there is a local accent, sometimes it's almost comical, and gets in the way, the whole ordeal becomes not only pseudo-flamenco but, to a lot of people, pseudo-music, and that's what you want to distance yourself from. There are lighthearted practicioners who just don't mind.. like choirs singing romanian songs with a horrible swedish accent and just having a blast. Some are more sensitive about these things than others.. it's what we have to deal with, somehow.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:46:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14875
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

I dont even ottmar thinks thats offensive himself actually. Hed doesnt call himself a flamenco guitarist, other people do.

I don't think you were being offensive, but Dominic is offended by your "other people do", inother words, that outsiders have lower standards for what is flamenco. Not that ottmar is offended. Like, he is offended for your insinuating he might think Ottmar is flamenco.

Point being you included YOURSELF in that statement, as an outsider. But I got your point and it was not offensive. Like I said, you were wrong, because there are plenty of outsiders who define flamenco guitar as you do, cante accompaniment primarily, but that won't change or open up the contest to be more fair. Guiri is guiri.

Florian pretty much said it, even in Spain you find folks who don't know what flamenco really is. And then further inside the elitist culture of flamenco, you have people with different ideas of the boundries and definitions. 30,000 singers? Come on. But we get his point, but it is HIS point. I think it is clear where we all stand now.
Peace, I am out of this one.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:47:18

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

like choirs singing romanian songs with a horrible swedish accent

I only did that once !!!!!!!!!! and i needed the money for college

Leave me ALONE !! u not perfect !!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:48:38

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

lol hes not talking about the right o call yourself a flamenco guitarist.
hes talking about beeing a good soloist.
Any more quotes of what other people said ?

He is talking about whats essential for a flamenco soloist and its a catch 22 situation, if i quote people, then im pretending to be them and my opinion is disqualified because of that, and if i talk from experience then my opinion is disqualified because im not spanish.

quote:

he is offended for your insinuating he might think Ottmar is flamenco.

Oh, well i didnt mean that

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:51:42

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

hes not saying its essencial, hes saying that to be a GOOD soloist.

and the only person here that has ever diqualified anyones view for not beeing spanish is you,

we are sick quotes and what other people say, but they are inprinetd in you soo deeply that even when you speak for you , u just end up reciting what they say.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:53:22

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

hes not saying its essencial, hes saying that to be a GOOD soloist.

So you mean that Grisha and Todd arent good soloists?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:55:31

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

no i am not saying that, going by his quote , he is.

i make up my own mind about who is a good soloist or not for myself.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:57:45

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

so what do we call a guitarist playing for cante on his computer?

...............Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 9:59:12

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

Im getting a bit tired of this discussion, i dont know what you want me to say, the way i learned flamenco is that first you learn the basic chords to accompany a singer then you learn solos from others, then you compose your own solos if you want to become a soloist.

Much in the same way that ricardo and i talked about learning palmas.

Thats just the way i been taught and im sticking with it. And i dont have much more to say about it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 10:03:11

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

I agree i am getting tired of it too

quote:

i dont know what you want me to say, the way i learned flamenco is that first you learn the basic chords to accompany a singer then you learn solos from others, then you compose your own solos if you want to become a soloist

yes 100 % correct

that is one way, but not the only way, theres a million paths to the same place.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 10:05:50

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

so what do we call a guitarist playing for cante on his computer?

Someone who acknowledge the vital part of accompaniment in the formation and tries to make the best out of his situation.

quote:

that is one way, but not the only way, theres a million paths to the same place.

Yes, i dont mean that they necessarily have to come in that order.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 10:07:33

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

thats all i ever wanted from you , not to agree with me but recognise that theres alway more than 1 ways to skin a cat.

there, wasent so bad was it ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 10:11:01

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

No but i just feel as if i was gangraped

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 10:12:51

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

well i am sorry about that, other people had theyr own opinions too and joined in with they views on the subject (completly up to them).

i only ever speak for myself, same as everyone else.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 10:15:49