Hnos Sanchiz lopez

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Hnos Sanchiz lopez

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gitano1974

Posts: 12
Joined: Jan. 7 2006

Hnos Sanchiz lopez

Hello amigos

I just received yesterday my first negra guitar. It's a Hnos Sanchis lopez 1F. I must say I liked the bass attack very much, thunderous and aggressive. However, the treble was not sharp and bright as I expected it to be. My question is : Is this the case with negra guitars, not as sharp and bright as the blancas? or this is the case with this model in specific? It woukd be great if anybody here can give me some insight.

Another thing , I need to raise it's action. Can I just put a strip of wood under the saddle or there is another way ?

Have a great day all

Gitano

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2006 7:10:41

Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

I know that some people do use shims under the saddle to raise it. However, I think everyone would agree that the best solution would be to make a new saddle. Its really not hard to do and all that's needed is some sandpaper, a flat surface to sand on and a hacksaw. To me this is just as easy, or easier, as it would be to make a shim of the right width, thinckness and taper and perfectly flat.

Instructions are here:

How To Make a New Saddle

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2006 10:38:49

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

I may not know what I'm talking about, but I have been trying to listen to artists who are known to use negras because I wanted to see if there were any noticible differences.

So far, what I think I'm hearing is that the negras sound slightly more 'brittle' with slightly less sustain. More like a flamenco guitar than a classical, IMHO. The spruce faced guitars seem to 'ring out' more.
Then again, I can't be sure if I am actually listening to what I think I am.

You say the bass is thunderous, is it actually louder than the trebles?
How long have you worked out on it for? I assume you gave it a reasonable seassion to wake it up.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2006 13:39:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

I swear we talked about this recently with someone here, but I can't find it. My feelings about this particular instrument are exactly the same as yours. The negra is bass heavy. Their blanca is more balanced. I have the maple guitar, and it is in between, a bit bassy but still bright. My student has the "bulerias" model which is also a bit brighter, as it is Bolivian rosewood, not the indian rosewood.

In general I find this is typical of negra guitars, having not the same clearity and brightness in the trebles as the blancas. I find an exception to be the Conde negra af25. Several I have played and they have very clear trebles, not like a classical at all, and no boomy bass. I don't understand the secret because I don't believe to those guitars to be manufactured by the same hands. It could simply be the bracing design, I don't really know, but it is noticeable to me right away. I prefer blancas, but accept the sound of the conde negra easily.

But anyway it is not you or the specific guitar, that is typical with that make and model by hermanos sanchis lopez.

Ricardo

PS, try some different strings on it right away. Try Luthier 20's. Makes a difference.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2006 16:58:59

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

I have a negra that suffered a bit of the same, until I saw a guitar that Yuris Zeltsin had 'tuned'.

If your action is too low, I do not recommend a shim. Get a new piece of bone or ivory, BUT RAISE THE TREBLE SIDE HIGHER THAN THE BASES. Usually, it's higher on the base, lowering across the strings to the High E, but reverse that, and you might be surprised.

The lower the action (sometimes) the less volume, but you can bring up the trebles by raising the action higher than the bases, but they are easier to 'push' than bases, so the playing difference is slight.

It should bring the trebles up quite a bit. I would also suggest D'Addario Normal Tension Composites (no, I have no connection and am not selling them. Antonio Moya of Spain turned me onto them). They have added tremendously to many of my guitars. I tried Hard Tension the other day, replacing string by string. Bases were good, trebles WENT DOWN in volume.

It IS case by case with each guitar, but for $20 it's worth finding out - Negra or Blanca. My Negra is now quite even and punchy, and it has a spruce top!

(You can kind of see in the pic the treble side is higher)

Ramon

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2006 17:33:30

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

Both negras I own have a strong bass response, trebles not so much. I was just playing with a guy with a blanca and we both agreed that the trebles on my Tezanos didn't have as much brilliance.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2006 17:36:13

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

As Ramon said, one of the best cures to the problem is with composite trebles. I have settled on Saveraz Alliance. I own, and have owned several negra’s and found the Alliance trebles to be the ticket. They add brilliance and wonderful overtones. They are a bit thin and take a bit of getting used to, but it's worth it. I buy separate treble sets from stringsbymail.com and leave them on for months.

My experience has been that every negra I have owned has benefited from composite trebles.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2006 20:27:13

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

I have had several ppl recommend the Corum(bass)/Alliance(treble) combo. Thanks for that strings by mail info, Patrick. The strings come in standard tension, high tension and a high tension bass/normal tension treble combination. I was going to order all three, just to give them a try, but it was my understanding that the lower the tension of the treble the less bright?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2006 2:16:58

Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

Again, case by case. I JUST replaced my Normal Tension and put Hard Tension on my Rodriguez blanca; the trebles went down in volume, and the bases have a metallic buzz. Ugh.

Taking them off and putting the Normal's back on....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2006 4:35:20

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

samwise,

I have pretty much given up on the Corrum basses. They sound great, but I can't get any more than a week or so out of them before they go dead or the D string windings start to break.

By the way, the "normal" tension Alliance is everyone else’s “mediums". I hate to change strings so I just use good old EJ45 basses with the Alliance trebles. 45 basses last forever.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2006 6:14:47

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

quote:

my Tezanos didn't have as much brilliance.

Mike,

Get those Alliance back on that thing like it did when you got it young man! I know they were normals when you got it, but they make high tension Alliance too you know.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2006 6:22:06

gitano1974

Posts: 12
Joined: Jan. 7 2006

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to Ramón)

Thanks Ramon and everyone for the feedback..

I have raised the action and yeah , the treble sound has actually improved..however the boom of the bass has increased..I guess I must design a saddle to raise the treble only and keep the bass with original action.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 14 2006 4:42:30

hhmusic

Posts: 164
Joined: May 13 2006

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to Ramón)

-- Get a new piece of bone or ivory, BUT RAISE THE TREBLE SIDE HIGHER THAN THE BASSES. Usually, it's higher on the bass, lowering across the strings to the High E, but reverse that, and you might be surprised. --

I highly recommend this as well, or at least having bass and treble the same height. Besides the fact that it might it bring more volume to the trebles, there is a more important benefit:

Bass strings, with their higher mass, can tolerate being closer to the frets. They'll buzz, but the frets won't kill the string vibration. However, if the action is too low on the trebles, they'll often 'splat' and die on the frets.

I've played several very expensive guitars that had this problem, and regularly see some top notch (usually American) luthiers still setting up flamencos with lowered versions of classical saddles, tapering downward to the treble side. Conversely, most Spanish flamenco builders either make the saddle flat or very slightly higher on the treble side.

In my experience, the correct set up for flamenco really is flat or higher on the treble. You'll get easier action and 'good' buzz on the basses, and clarity, volume and 'ching' on the trebles. Try it - it's worth giving it a shot to see if you agree.

(I'll submit a picture in a later post.)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 14 2006 20:19:35

Guest

RE: Hnos Sanchiz lopez (in reply to gitano1974)

Just my thoughts.

A good negra should have deep and strong basses, but should NOT be bass heavy.
Actually I often find that the trebles in my own negras are brighter and more brilliant, but the strength of the basses may make them sound deeper overall.

Some people try to build the strong bass "out". In order to make the guitar sound more blanca. That´s so stupid IMHO, because you´d be better of with a guitar build with cypress. One of the most important things in building is to go with your materials and not against. I like my peghead blancas to be very shortsustained and bright, my negras to have some body, treble clarity and harmonics and my blancas with machine heads to be a bit more melodic than the pegheads.
Then there´s something for everyone