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Hi there, first time for me to post in this section, advise from the pros would be appreciated.
So the Paco Castillo belonging to our pena has been mistreated by some brutes... Originally the guitar was sold without a pickguard, but the previous owner had put on some electrostatic thing which can easily been removed. Unfortunately it is a bit small, so there has been some damage on the wood.
I would like to flatten these out, but I am not sure if it is a good idea and what kind of material to use...Then I would like to glue on a bigger black golpeador covering the mess, so I would probably not re-finish the whole soundboard.
Any idea which is the best way to proceed?
Thank you Mecmachin
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RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
It's good news the existing guard is easily removed. Man, those gouges are a sight.
There's no real need to flatten or fill anything as you'll be covering the damaged area with an opaque golpeador. Try to find one that's at least a quarter millimetre thick (about 0.010"). It will bridge the gouges, attempting to fill them will likely just cause grief and extra work.
It would be a good idea to seal the gouged areas by brushing some shellac or hot hide glue onto the bare wood. No need to go nuts, the objective is to seal the wood, nothing more. If you have access to hot hide glue it allows for future repairs, but shellac is fine if you can get your hands on some. If it's a French polished guitar be careful when brushing on the shellac to just brush it over the bare wood as if you get any on the guitar's finish it will make a mess of it (so protect the top and watch out for drips, etc). Any hot hide mishaps can easily be cleaned up with a damp rag (as it's water soluble).
If you buy the golpeador in a sheet it can be cut with sharp sissors. If it's self-adhesive don't fuss too much with the edges, the goal is to handle the edges as little as possible to avoid stick issues. It can also be glued down but only do that if the sealing step was followed. I've not applied golpeadores with glue (because I bought a crapload of self-stickers years ago) but estabanana does it that way, so he could weigh in on the process if that's the course you choose to follow (as self stick opaque golpeadores may not be readily available). Oh, and Ricardo has replaced golpeadores on his guitars a number of times. He's posted a pictorial of how he put one on that's worth searching out.
Best of luck with this. It's a fairly straightforward job and a worthwhile exercise. At the end of the day, you'll be glad you did it. 👍
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
If it were me I’d just get some white Mylar and cut an extension piece to fit below the main clear tap plate. You could probably get some of that gouged area to fluff up with steam, the deep ones won’t be fixed, but the shallow scratches could be fluffed up by expanding the wood with steam and then could sand it flat. I’d do that about three times and see how much scratching you could level out. Then by doing a drop fill you could level out those deeper gouges. After you drop fill and level you could French polish over it. At that point replacing the whole tap plate with a bigger clear one is possible.
I really dislike black tap plates myself. The quick fix is to seal the deep gouges with shellac and use white glue to make and extension piece below the main section of clear tap plate.
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
BTW those kind of scratches are not from doing golpes, those gouges happen when the players right hand middle fingers ride against the top while playing. That player has terrible technique, they should also be in therapy. I hope they use contraception and don’t reproduce.
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
Paisley. The tap plate should be paisley. It's all the rage these days.
Do the whole thing if the clear plate is just one of those static stick-ons. No point in going halfway in these matters. If you want to preserve the existing clear plate, then consider gluing something educational over the gouges, like an old-fashioned mouse trap. Just discretely set it before handing the guitar off to old thunder-fingers and then sit back and enjoy the fun :)
Mind you, if a certain person's parents had done the right thing, like practicing safe sex or teaching their hell-spawn such bizarre concepts as respect for the property of others, then this entire conversation would be moot.
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
A bit of finish and she'll be fine. It's possible to repair the area, but a lot of techniques needed that are beyond what a DIY'er should be attempting.
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
Thanks everybody for your kind words and hints. The suspected player is a rumbero at toque and generally sings as a pro, I have forgiven him. I was myself a bit naive to leave the existing golpeador on. It's too small for this guitar which serves for juergas, dance accompaniment, and everybody has the right to play it. I will defininately replace this golpeador. It can be simply torn off. (Once you tear it off you cannot really re-stick it, it will take dust and bubbles.)
RobF, I like your pragmatic approach. Hot hide glue is HOT hide glue? For the time being I only find self-adhesive golpeadores on the web, no thickness indication. Will keep on looking...
Estebanana, the guitar has an acrylic finish. So you would seal the gouges with shellac and drop-fill with white glue, is that right? The person in question hasn't reproduced yet, but isn't beyond the age of reproduction.
Firefrets, the guitar costs new 400€. Laminated back and sides. Very loud though with good trebles and basses, and a bit weak in the middles. If it was mine, I'd be tempted to put money, but she's everyone's darling.
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mecmachin
...RobF, I like your pragmatic approach. Hot hide glue is HOT hide glue? For the time being I only find self-adhesive golpeadores on the web, no thickness indication. Will keep on looking...
Estebanana, the guitar has an acrylic finish...
Hi, shellac will be fine for the job, it's a lot more accessible, too. As far as the thickness goes...pretty well any opaque plate intended for use as a golpeador will likely be at least 0.010" thick. It's kind of standard. The main thing is to avoid the ultra thin ones marketed for steel string guitar pickguards as they're pretty well useless for golpes and won't sound right either. A lot of places selling plates might not even know their thickness, but if they do somewhere between 10-15 thou should be good.
Again, this is all pretty straight-forward. Just check out Ricardo's post about how to apply the new one and also there's a slew of articles online showing different ways people align them, etc... and of course there's this post, too, if you have more questions. Cheers!
Posts: 15854
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
It is a real shame because a normal size golpeador like I use hangs down just enough to have prevented those digs. I thought it was fairly standard, though I have seen some old guitars where they only stop at the length of the bridge, and even THAT would have stopped the worst of it there.
I am surprised the advices recommend not making those "flat", as putting a new plate on top of that spot would form a gap, and while you won't punch through the plastic there, it certainly won't "stick" and therefore moisture can build up in the space between the wood and the plate, and that can lead to mold and other problems. I had a guitar fixed with this problem where we filled the gaps with glue, sanded that flat, then put the plate on so it is a solid contact. It is obviously a more "permanent" solution, and not "pretty" looking, but it is secure.
The rest of the plate does not need changing so I recommend cutting a strip that aligns along the seam below. Later, if ever, you decide or need to change the whole plate, you can redo the whole thing with a bigger plate.
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
Try not to overthink it. I've been avoiding meaningful thought for the better part of a lifetime and I turned out OK. Us guys who work on these things are often considering stuff like future repair-ability and reversibility which might lead to advice that appears counter-intuitive at first glance.
If the plate that's on there now is one of those electrostatically held cling-on types then it's almost certainly too thin for the job and should be replaced, regardless. If the bare spots are sealed with shellac honestly the gaps underneath will be bridged by the thicker, proper plate and it will be fine. Wood breathes. Filling and smoothing flat surfaces is not always as straightforward as one might think (mainly because things that appear to be flat often are not). It's just extra unnecessary work, IMO, and also work best left to someone else, who's then going to turn around and charge you more than you want to spend because they're being asked to do what's essentially a make work project.
While none of this is a big deal, if it's worth doing then it's probably worth doing without half-measures (ergo. new golpeador). But there's always more than one way to skin a cat, etc...I was taking into account not only your lack of experience and confidence with my advice, but also how it's going to look when you're done. If you feel overwhelmed at all I don't think it would be very costly to have it done locally by a repair tech. It might be easier in the long run because they'll likely have all the appropriate material at hand. Considering the value of the guitar and its intended use as a community instrument I wouldn't spend too much or go too crazy with extensive repairs. Just keep it simple and try to avoid doing things that might make life difficult for future work.
At any rate, best of luck with it, regardless of your chosen course of action. Everything's going to turn out just fine. Trust me, it'll be great. 👍
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
I could pull out the majority of the dings with steam and keep the patches of orginal finish without sanding into the top and changing the thickness, but I’ve practiced that more than most people. That’s what I would do, and then ‘drop fill’ the rest with either lacquer or clear shellac. Look up what drop fill means, I’m too busy to explain it. Then after it’s drop filled, level it with progressively finer grades of abrasive until you can spot polish it with shellac.
Then proceed with a brand new large clear tap plate. But again it’s a matter of skill vs. quick and dirty solutions.
I’d take up a collection at the Pena and have a pro fix the guitar, then caution any wild technique players they will have to pay to fix it again if there is undue wear to the top.
Second option, take it to cabnet shop and buy a piece of Formica that’s 19” long x 15” wide and glue it to the top of the guitar. Then using laminate trim router bit, trim the Formica to the outline of the guitar and punch a hole in the Formica approximately where the sound hole is.
Posts: 15854
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: golpe traces on soundboard - how... (in reply to mecmachin)
quote:
but the previous owner had put on some electrostatic thing which can easily been removed.
oh sorry, I missed that part, at a glance I thought it was a normal glued plate cut small. Yes, as the others said, apply a proper sized golpeador, and fill those digs with shellac instead of glue to make it flat.
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