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RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to Fawkes)
OK, so when he refers to the oscillating pattern of increased and decreased amplitude he's talking about the exact same thing I am when I refer to an underdamped response. He's supporting what I've been saying. I'll just add that that oscillation will be influenced by the natural frequency of the instrument (system) and may or may not match the frequency of the stimulus. It's really important to understand that while in that state the instrument is not behaving well. It's not its normal self, so to speak.
Worst case, the guitar can actually break, a brace will pop loose or a crack appear. In a sense that's just nature taking its course, if the act of breaking can change the parameters of the system enough that it exits the destructive state (or no longer enters it). Maybe that's what's supposed to happen. Kind of like the Tacoma Narrows bridge collapsing. To man, the bridge collapse represented a disaster and an engineering failure. To the bridge, it was just taking matters to their logical conclusion and doing what was necessary to exit an uncontrolled state.
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to estebanana)
@estebanana,, I feel kind of bad for the part I've played in pulling the thread so far off topic. You came on to show a nice new body shape and it sure looks like it's going to make a great guitar. Hopefully you'll be able to pull the thread back on track by posting updates of the progress. I'll be following it. Nice choice of woods, too. 👍
As far as the wolf talk goes I think it's been a pretty interesting discussion and there's lots there to mull over, but at the end of the day people have to draw their own conclusions. Investigate and verify. It's all good.
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to RobF)
quote:
ORIGINAL: RobF
@estebanana,, I feel kind of bad for the part I've played in pulling the thread so far off topic. You came on to show a nice new body shape and it sure looks like it's going to make a great guitar. Hopefully you'll be able to pull the thread back on track by posting updates of the progress. I'll be following it. Nice choice of woods, too. 👍
As far as the wolf talk goes I think it's been a pretty interesting discussion and there's lots there to mull over, but at the end of the day people have to draw their own conclusions. Investigate and verify. It's all good.
It’s cool, it’s interesting to see how people think about the wolf tone.
I should add that the guitar I sent to the dealer that he claimed had a wolf on F# forth fret on the D string was not felt strongly by others. I suspect he was looking for very small glitch sound. This was around 2015, and I remember getting that guitar back and noodling around with the set up and the problem either went away completely or was so greatly diminished I didn’t feel rot hear it anymore.
That’s why I said lots of these creaks and gurgles are in the final set up if it’s not perfect and scrutinized. I had a couple years here where I was hitting bottom with culture shock from being so isolated in a small town in winter that there were times I couldn’t work in my shop or only for a few hours and I’d go for walks or just sleep all day. I did terrible work during that time, and many problems occurred. Richard Jernigan emailed me after I complained about his it was going and said culture shock is a real thing and don’t let anyone tell you that you have to be tough. He advised trying to adapt the way you engage your social environment and see how that works. Not too long after that I began teaching in the public schools and through the school and city hall I made many social connections and from there started the guitar ensemble. Everything got better from there and my guitar work got better. I had a growth phase in 2018 to now with fewer screwups. This culture grinds up foreigners and buries them if you don’t exist defensively. 😂
As for wolfs, I have spent a great deal of time with the cello as a player, the F# on the G string almost always has a wolf and there are ways to get around it or diminish its rattle. Guitars can have wolfy notes, but not the same as a cello. BTW Simminoff the guy in the video is one of the people who proposed free plate tuning and wrote the book with all the analysis back in the mid 1970’s. My friend Stewart Port has that book on his guitar reference shelf. I pulled it out, opened it, closed it and never gave it a second thought. You know why? Because none of those guys made flamenco guitars and the most important thing is how it feels and how it enables the flamenco player to go rasgueado and alzapua. That’s all stuff you build in physically, not by playing with spreadsheets on voicing by looking at tap tone spectrums. The great flamenco builders worked differently, they didn’t try to backwards engineer guitars, they just built them the right way.
There was a year and a half when I had a skin condition, still have it somewhat, where I built 3 guitars during that time. Two of them were screwed up due to my hands, the other one is one of the most interesting guitars I’ve ever made, which everyone agrees is a gem, but no one will buy it because they don’t like pegs. I may get it back from the dealer, maybe that’s my guitar…
Now my hands are not shredded and I’m making probably the best guitars I ever made, you have to adapt and keep going.
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to RobF)
I make purfling by laminating veneer over this form, I lace it down with rope, very medieval. Then I slice it off with this razor blade tool of my own invention. This makes it so much easier to work with one purfling unit than four of six individual strips of veneer. I glue them with hide glue or Titebond, doesn’t seem to make much difference. After it’s all glued onto the guitar and the binding is going on, I paint thin hide glue onto the purlfling and roping the binding on squeezes it all together again if any sections are uneven Here’s the sample for the purfling on this guitar
Black/ Hinoki/ green green/ Hinoki / black
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Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
the other one is one of the most interesting guitars I’ve ever made, which everyone agrees is a gem, but no one will buy it because they don’t like pegs. I may get it back from the dealer, maybe that’s my guitar…
real pegs or the planetary mech pegs? what dealer? I am sure you listed it here before so which one was it?
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
the other one is one of the most interesting guitars I’ve ever made, which everyone agrees is a gem, but no one will buy it because they don’t like pegs. I may get it back from the dealer, maybe that’s my guitar…
real pegs or the planetary mech pegs? what dealer? I am sure you listed it here before so which one was it?
Real wood pegs- it was this guitar that I showed during the building process
It’s listed at 880,000¥ which is $5800.00 USD and that’s not a bad price considering the shop charges 25% commission
$5800 is not a lot of money for a guitarist in Japan, people who commit to even amateur playing will often drop $7000.00 or more, but the niche category of this instrument, plus wood pegs makes it a hard sell in this place at that price. I doubt it’s going to sell in this shop and I’ll get it back before the end of the year.
Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to estebanana)
Oh yeah, that is a cool one, the Batman Planeta Torres style guitar. I guess $880,000 is too cheap so up the price a lot , like a million .2 and probably someone will think it is a hot item.
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to RobF)
Anyway, here’s another little thing for the builders I made mortise thingies - see after cutting binding ledge.
I wanted to anchor the back brace ends more because, while the back liner is adequate to glue the back onto, I don’t feel these spruce liners are good for accepting mortises for brace ends.
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RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to RobF)
Lot of good info upthread about wolf notes etc.
My last flamenca had this thing where it would go off beat but only if the first and six strings were not in perfect unison. Early on I decided to put my tuner on to see what note it was, quickly decided to try and tune the guitar down a half step, but before I could even do that I realized that the fresh strings needed to be tuned up a bit ands that’s when I realized it was the E and e being out a fraction of a cent was causing the exaggerated beat. It bothered me some but I just did a quick harmonic check and it went away. A few weeks later and just a couple days before the LA guitar show some googan buggered up the top, I had made up a golpedar for her but hadn’t glued it in yet cause I wasn’t sure I liked it. The night before boarding the flight for the show I glued it on, boxed her up and didn’t give the wolf note a thought. New I was needing some strings and someone at the show would have some, El Rubio said he had been using the Pepe Romero Flamenco set and PRjr was there first thing in the morning. He gave me a cool deal on a set of 10, thanx brother!, and I strung her up right away…
Fast forward I’m home noodling around and at some point I notice the wolf or whatever it was was no longer there. Couldn’t say exactly why. Thinking about it some I was wondering if the previous string set had an issue? ( Augustine blue high tension) When I shipped my guitars from anchorage to my place in western ak with a **** ton of other freight I did notice it took about 3-4 days for my guitars to be happy, it was fairly cool out, 30-40f so wondering about how that affects the guitar…
On my last two classicals, still in process and on hold until I get my shop set up after moving back to my west ak home, I decided to dispense with cutting in the back braces entirely:
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
Posts: 2731
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to estebanana)
i like your photos.thanks. I also like that purfling cutting jig. pretty cool. so that blade moves along from side to side? what happens when you go over the edge? blade rotates?
RE: I changed my model after my tast... (in reply to Stu)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stu
i like your photos.thanks. I also like that purfling cutting jig. pretty cool. so that blade moves along from side to side? what happens when you go over the edge? blade rotates?
The blade is double ended, but when it’s in the holder, probably a tool you’d call a gramil, it’s stationary. I score both sides of the purfling as deep as I can accurately and then finish parting it with and scalpel. Then I lay the purfling strip on its side and true it up with a small plane.
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