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RE: I Demand A New Cabbage ( Anglow Warning)
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3437
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: I Demand A New Cabbage ( Anglow ... (in reply to Brendan)
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quote:
That’s interesting, though unsurprising, about Japanese weapons shopping. Germany is an arms manufacturer but there is a similar sort of shredding of the post-war determination to avoid anything that smells of militarism.
Interesting piece by Habermas. Thanks for posting.
I don't find it surprising that both Japan and Germany are shedding their post-war pacifism. It has been nearly 78 years since the end of the war. Aside from the generation in both countries that fought in and experienced the war, we now have--what?--the third post-war generation? The memories of Nazism and Japanese militarism are becoming ancient history, much as the Vietnam War has become for large swaths of the US population.
Germany has atoned for its aggression and wartime atrocities many times over. I don't think you can expect generation after generation to feel the same guilt that the immediate post-war generations felt. And in my opinion (You may disagree with me, Stephen.) the Japanese haven't come close to the Germans in atoning for the aggression and atrocities they inflicted on Asia. And I'm not just referring to those who ritually visit the Yasukuni Shrine each year. Many consider Japan to have been the victim in the war! So there's that element.
Consider the situation both countries find themselves confronting. As has often been said, Putin's war on Ukraine is the first war on European soil since World War II. He has made no secret of wanting to reconstitute a Greater Russia that, geographically, resembles the old Soviet Union. If he succeeds in Ukraine, what next? Likely Moldova, which is not a member of NATO. But the Baltic States no doubt are tempting, and they are NATO members.
Japan faces both China and North Korea. Japan administers the Senkaku Islands, which China claims (and calls the Diaoyu Islands) in the East China Sea. North Korea is an obvious threat, lobbing missiles that at times actually fly over Japanese territory. That is a rough neighborhood in which to maintain the level of pacifism of post-war Japan.
Both Germany and Japan have heretofore depended on the US defense umbrella for their security. Unfortunately, although I would like to think the US defense umbrella remains in place as solid as ever, if I were responsible for the defense portfolios in Germany and Japan, I would not be so sure. Remember Trump calling NATO obsolete? And Trump's erratic and foolish so-called "summits" with Kim Jong Un were not thought through and well-prepared. The result was to confirm that all an adversary, whether Kim, Putin, or Xi, had to do was flatter Trump to gain his gushing admiration. While Trump is thankfully gone, given the political situation in the United States, he, or someone like him, may well become president in the future.
At any rate, while I think it is clearly in the US interest to maintain our alliances, I also think it is in our interest, as well as that of Germany and Japan, that they move toward a more assertive defense posture.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Oct. 29 2022 16:06:52
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estebanana
Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: I Demand A New Cabbage ( Anglow ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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Bill,
Don’t even take the bait. The profile is a troll who knows very little about flamenco or reality. And it’s nonsense. The NATO countries and the US aren’t selling weapons to Ukraine, the support is being given with no quid pro quo.
I’m the first one to criticize the failure of the Cheney circle of so called neo cons, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz and rest of them who perused a policy of ‘regime change’. There’s a disconnect between those who see American policy as aggression sanctioned by all Americans as if we’re incapable of nuance, and Americans who don’t want the globe to shift to being dominated by China and Russia.
James Baldwin said America is …….
If someone like trump gets elected again, two main things will happen first: The diversity of policy opinion in the infrastructure of the government will be broken down by the trump proxy. They have learned that the mistake trump made was not working hard enough to replace the heads of all depts with loyalists who will change the culture of the institutions they run to absolute loyalist culture. That loyalist culture will lock out the people who will counter trumps bad and illegal orders.
Next, and this is already happening, the Secretaries of State in republican led states will adopt the policy of overturning the popular and electoral votes in that state and turn the electoral vote over to electors in the state legislature who will vote only for republicans and not certify the peoples vote. This isn’t political fiction, this is now a goal of the hard line Republicans and the RNC ( the Republican National organization that governs the internal party polices. Also the organization that tweets anti semetic rhetoric openly)
Other things that will creep in will be physical and editorial attacks on opposition journalists. Not pro democrat journalists, but journalists trying to be objective. If objectivity becomes a criticism of the methodology of the Republican government they will look the other way when journalists are attacked. The legal / judicial system is still intact, the violent offenders won’t walk free, but the system will erode and it will become more difficult and scary to be an objective reporter.
The Supreme Court is devastatingly compromised now, not in that it’s now a conservative majority court, but in how that was achieved and how the ideological bent of the court comes out of the Federalist Society ideology.
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_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Oct. 29 2022 20:38:53
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estebanana
Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: I Demand A New Cabbage ( Anglow ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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Bill,
When you made the comparison between Japan and Germany, I don’t look at it terms of concepts like atonement, or less so than in terms of actions.
As an American I find it difficult to be clear about making a judgment on Germany or Japan because at the same time these two countries were engaged in colonial quests the US was doing the same thing in Central America via the fruit corporations of the late 19th century. We don’t teach that history in high school and even in college you won’t get it unless you take history of the Americas. Perhaps Germany is ahead in compulsory education and modern German history, but Japan is behind in public discourse on its colonial history.
But here’s where I break, a couple of things: I think we are living in a time where colonial expansion is absolutely wrong, but that China and Russia are engaged in colonial expansion, what ever way they want to justify it or name it’s still colonialism ( China in Africa) The past is the past and the demagoguery that brought about empire a hundred and fifty years ago in Japan, the US and Germany brought in people who were duped by nationalist governments in a time when information went through bottle necks. The people had the stream of information choked down a smaller pipeline, and unlike today information wasn’t diversified. It’s easier now to cross reference information to find out what is real and what isn’t, although it’s labor intensive to fact find. I see the media markets in China, Iran and Russia being choked down into more narrow streams without alternatives to fact check, it’s difficult. So I’m down on these governments as oppressors of information. The US is highly diversified in information output, but people have confirmation biases, and boy does that matter.
To get to the point, today we have such information bottle necks to contend with that it’s hard for me to prioritize an evaluation of the history of self reflection on colonial wrongs, while the same bottle necking that created those 19th century colonial tragedies are occurring right in front of me. I think whomsoever atoned more and how they did it isn’t important. I will say there is a generational divide in Japan in how you can talk about the war and the Korean and Chinese occupations, and the Russo-Japanese war. Older people than 65 to 70 mostly don’t want to talk about it and people who are under 40 will open up about it if they trust you.
As far as the honoring of the war dead of Japan being offensive to China, I’m not sympathetic with Chinese views because most of it is manufactured and exacerbated by Xi as part of his shame Japan policy. And it’s complex because that memorial service is Japan’s right I think as it is any countries right to honor its dead soldiers. The problem is that the current political party in control in Japan is called the Jimento, they are roughly like the Tories except they are about four times as misogynistic as Tories. They suppress women in politics. Most people under 55 hate their guts, but they stay in power because the older population votes for them. It was one of Abe’s and policies to tell Japanese people not be shamed by Xi and part of that was the official Jimento visit to the shrine. This is like Abe and Xi saying f¥ck you to each other while everyone else doesn’t care.
Before the Covid restrictions the commerce between Japan and China was brisk. Chinese tourists love to come to Japan stay overnight and go shopping. Only in 2019 did this change when covid struck and Xi ramped up his anti Japan rhetoric. Prior to that hundreds of thousands of Chinese tourists came to Japan every year to go to Nitori ( Japanese IKEA) or Japanese electronics stores to buy appliances and high end cameras etc. Chinese folks wanted Japanese consumer goods. That whole thing of Chinese people hating the Japanese is vastly overplayed by the Chinese communist party. The Japanese visit to the shrine is an old school show if allegiance to the Jimento brand of nationalist propaganda and everyone knows it.
Anyway, I recommend reading The Last Zero Fighter for a historical look into the formation of the modern Japanese navy and the differences in philosophy between the old Japanese army during WWII and the forward looking technology based Japan Air Force. The army was an extension of the old samurai families who had a different view on the world than the naval air force which was much more progressive. The navy man was patriotic, but not sadistic. The old army was managed by sadists. The army carried out the colonial quests before the naval aviators were trained in the 1930’s. This book changed my views on a lot if Japanese history post war.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Oct. 30 2022 2:20:13
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3437
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: I Demand A New Cabbage ( Anglow ... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
pop open a bottle of champagne in celebration for your small contribution to pushing ever more people towards Trump 2.0. Congrats guys, you have earned it!!!
Three points.
First, I don't think any political discussions that have occurred have pushed anyone toward Trump 2.0 who wasn't already on board for Trump. I'm thinking of two members in particular who were voicing Trumpster-like opinions and a conspiratorial version of "facts" from the very beginning (e.g., "Yanks are blowing up Ukrainian infrastructure.). That example of conspiratorial nonsense was certainly not caused by recognizing what any rational person knows, i.e., Putin, not the US, is the one blowing up Ukrainian infrastructure.
Second, There have been any number of flamenco topics in both the general and luthiery categories over the last few days. This still remains a Flamenco Forum with plenty of questions and demonstrations regarding technique, building methods, wood type and selection, and other flamenco topics. That there is an occasional Off-Topic discussion on politics or any other subject in no way detracts from the flamenco topics. All one has to do is pick the topic or thread one is interested in and delve into it. Or start a new thread on whatever flamenco topic interests one. Regarding flamenco subjects vs. Off-Topic subjects, this is not a zero-sum game.
Third, There have always been Off-Topic discussions that have gone on for an extended period--everything from the Cosmos and black holes to the nature of mathematics as either invented or discovered, to politics, to the latest involving riddles. Again, anyone who was interested could participate, and if anyone was not interested, he could skip it and go on to another topic. No one is obligated to read and agree or disagree with any post, nor is anyone obligated to solve the riddles.
I, for one, have always appreciated the wide-ranging interests of much of the Foro's membership. I hope those interests continue to be expressed, along with the flamenco topics that have always been the mainstay of the Foro.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Oct. 30 2022 19:40:06
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estebanana
Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: I Demand A New Cabbage ( Anglow ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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Bill,
I just did a quick survey of Foro topics. I’ve found there are 23 topics in the General section on Flamenco that were active during October. The luthiers section featured 12 topics discussed during October and the Off Topic section has 11 topics under discussion in October.
12 + 11 = 23
So if my arithmetic is kosher, because I’m no math whiz, by my calculations the General Flamenco section is twice as busy as the Luthiers and Off Topic sections combined.
Further noted, I began an off topic thread about the Lord of the Rings spin off TV series that no one is claiming is unreasonably placed in off topic. And I’ve picked back up in my Dispatches thread which is now 9 years old. Can you believe it?
The Dispatches thread is one of the most read topics ever on the Foro with over 40,000 hits. The other wildly popular and long running thread is Black Hole Sun which will at some point blast past 100,000 hits!
It doesn’t seem like the Foro is wheezing along on life support, it’s chugging along at its own pace and the usual members are probably just men getting older and becoming old farts who don’t want anything around them to change. Well boo hoo, crocodiles tears. I’m going to talk about anything you and I and anyone else care to discuss, and at the same time I’ll continue to add my Pure Flamenco comments to the General Section and my Guitar comments to the Luthiers Section and my Dispatches story telling to the Off Topic section. If people don’t want to read them there are 23 glorious pure flamenco topics they can contribute to in the General Section.
Anyway ~ enough of that
When you asked about my thoughts on Japan and Germany in terms of post war self reflection on responsibility for pushing the world into war. My thought is that we shouldn’t be too proud in the US because we haven’t really self-reflected on our own ‘colonial’ presence in Hawaii and Central America between 1880 and the Second World War. I think we were able to gloss over our own expansionist errors because we were instrumental at ending the war Hitler started in Europe.
On the Pacific side, out passed Hawaii the Japanese empire expansion is a tough topic to bring out under the full antiseptic light of the sun because I live here and I don’t want to say bad things about the place I immigrated to. That said, I pivoted in my last post to asking if you’d read ‘The Last Zero Fighter’ which is a book of interviews of Japanese naval aviators who were still living when the book was published in July 2012.
This book changed my thinking on Japanese involvement in WWII. Highly recommend because it reveals the same military culture infighting within the Japanese military as we previously discussed figures such as Curtis LeMay in US military culture in the book Black Snow.
I was especially taken by the Japanese naval aviators takes in the attack at Pearl and how this attack has effected the American psyche. And by reading this book with the unvarnished opinions of Japanese pilots, how much we don’t know about ourselves as Americans, and now narrowly we view histories through our own brand of lens.
If this honesty is offensive to anyone, you may own your sense of being offended.
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Oct. 31 2022 0:53:05
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3437
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: I Demand A New Cabbage ( Anglow ... (in reply to estebanana)
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Stephen,
Good work on the statistics Re purely flamenco topics, both General and Luthiery sections, vs. Off-Topic subjects. It is obvious that flamenco topics continue to predominate over off-topic subjects by a wide margin. Equally obvious is that anyone who doesn't like any particular Off-Topic thread can just skip it. No one is forced to read anything on the Foro, flamenco related or off-topic.
I have not read "the Last Zero Fighter," but I still think the finest book written about the attack on Pearl Harbor is "At Dawn We Slept," by Gordon Prange. Prange was the historian attached to MacArthur in Japan, and he originally was going to focus his book on the Japaneses planning and execution of the attack, based on his interviews with all those involved. But as he got deeper into his research, he decided to write about both the Japanese planning and execution and American responses, such as they were.
Prange brings out in spades the superb planning on the Japanese side, and he gives full credit to Japanese naval aviation, of which Admiral Yamamoto was the prime mover. Equally impressive was the Japanese aviator Minoru Genda, who was a fighter pilot and the one who was chiefly responsible for formulating the details of the air attack itself. Good stuff.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Oct. 31 2022 15:17:54
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ernandez R
Posts: 667
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: I Demand A New Cabbage ( Anglow ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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Thanx Bill and Stevan, I've got this weeks reading downloaded to my Kindle already.
I never get personal on any forum, thats just childish. I just ask what anyone is selling, is it hate and violence or is it a benefit to society small or at large? Then take it or leave it accordingly. And yes, vote accordingly with a ballot or a click.
I read all the Foro threads except the ones on TV shows, just not my thing but might be so don't want to get spoilered. I pick up a lot about singing, playing and building. Its a shame we don't have much of a dance presence here and I won't say anything about the sausage party ;)
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date Oct. 31 2022 20:07:57
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