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I'm brand new here, and brand new to Flamenco music. I have a 1999 Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra, with rosewood back and sides. I don't think I could EVER sell this guitar, but I am curious how much you all think it would be worth - I need to know how much to insure it for, haha. It's in very good condition.
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to sleevebradley)
Here's one a year younger, sold by a well known dealer in Germany. It may have gone for a bit more than average because it once belonged to Antonio Rey, a famous player.
I'm not personally familiar with this dealer, so I don't know how open he is to price negotiation. His website implies that the price quoted is the "final price."
Some of my guitars are insured by Clarion, who specialize in musical instruments. They require an appraisal or evaluation by a recognized expert, which in my case have been a well known American dealer and a highly respected maker and dealer.
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to sleevebradley)
If you’re serious about insuring it, just cut to the chase and call the Brune’ shop in Chicago area. They’ll handle it. Otherwise you’re just going to get a lot random opinions you won’t be able to sort out.
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to sleevebradley)
The market of second hand flamenco guitar is not very profitable and it varies according to the place where you sell. Here in Europe a good 2nd hand Lester DeVoe is commonly seen to sell in the 6000-8000 Euro range: Solera Flamenca and Mundo flamenco are the shops selling the most. In Usa I suggest you to check the prices of the main dealers (Guitar Salon, Dan Zeff, Bruné) and I guess you will have similar figures. Usually a private struggles to get the same money though.
For the purpose of an insurance it's a good idea to get a quote from Guitar Salon or Bruné
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to sleevebradley)
Generally speaking, insurance is a rip-off. Just life, house and car. Unless you are always out of your house, travel with your guitar or are a professional player, just nominate it on your house insurance.
When I think of how much I have saved over the years, it would be enough to buy another top class guitar or two.
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to sleevebradley)
quote:
I'm brand new here, and brand new to Flamenco music. I have a 1999 Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra, with rosewood back and sides. I don't think I could EVER sell this guitar, but I am curious how much you all think it would be worth - I need to know how much to insure it for, haha. It's in very good condition.
All comments here are good but if I were you I would insure the guitar for the replacement cost. After all, this is about the only way to get another guitar from Lester. Call Lester and get his opinion, since he is the builder.
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
If you’re serious about insuring it, just cut to the chase and call the Brune’ shop in Chicago area. They’ll handle it. Otherwise you’re just going to get a lot random opinions you won’t be able to sort out.
Richard Brune' appraised a couple of guitars for me before I bought them. I was completely satisfied with his service. Last time I was at his shop 3 years ago he said he no longer did "appraisals" due to legal liabilities formal appraisals might entail, but he did "evaluations."
Whatever the distinction, if I ever got into a lawsuit about a guitar, I would offer to pay Richard as an expert witness.
I gave a guitar to a certified non-profit organization, and wanted an appraisal to back up the income tax deduction. James Greenburg of Zavaleta's Guitarras in Arizona had dealt in instruments by the same maker. With detailed photos showing the guitar's pristine condition and a $25 fee Greenburg sent me an appraisal.
Tom Blackshear has a good point. If something happened to your Devoe and you wanted a new one, you would need to recoup the purchase price. However Devoe's website says his wait list is 4 years. You face a bit more uncertainty in the used market, but you don't have to wait as long.
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
quote:
Tom Blackshear has a good point. If something happened to your Devoe and you wanted a new one, you would need to recoup the purchase price. However Devoe's website says his wait list is 4 years. You face a bit more uncertainty in the used market, but you don't have to wait as long.
Richard, this is just playing the advocate but if insured for new cost, automatically assures the purchase of any available guitar in the market, even new guitar sales of the DeVoe
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
I should point out that when Brune' appraised the guitars for me he had them at his shop. I asked the dealers to ship them to him for appraisal. One dealer did so readily, the other was reluctant, but eventually complied in order to make the sale.
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to Morante)
10K is a lot. I just spoke to Lester about a month ago. He stated he is semi-retired and that he no longer needs to build for money. That he only builds now for the love of building.
The guy is building killer guitars and he is a living legend so yeah, it’s a lot but his guitars keep their value and I’m sure once he is totally done building or gone, they will for sure become collectors and drive up prices
Posts: 2007
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to mt1007)
When you consider that a violin bow could cost 15k, it's inexpensive. Of course great guitars can be had for less. I had Lester build me a left handed blanca three years ago. I think it was about 8k. I don't think he's built many, if any other lefties. What is the value of my instrument? I don't know, and never will because I'll be dead when it sells.
I forgot about the money spent a long time ago, but every time I pull it out of the case, it makes me pretty happy. I guess if I want a negra it's time to ask.....
I met him over thirty years ago. He tried to sell me a guitar back then but I wasn't in a position to buy one, even at late 80's prices.
He also took lessons from the same teacher I did-Mariano Cordoba. Mariano told me he asked to borrow his 1930 Santos to study it and take measurements. He built his first guitar and showed it to Mariano, who was impressed. He told Lester it was good enough to sell. The rest is history.
My buddy in S. Cal told me the last time VA came through town, he praised Lester's work from the stage. Pretty cool.
Imagine you are a builder of flamenco guitars from California and Sabicas, PdL, VA, etc all end up playing your guitars at some point. That's incredible.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mt1007
10K is a lot. I just spoke to Lester about a month ago. He stated he is semi-retired and that he no longer needs to build for money. That he only builds now for the love of building.
The guy is building killer guitars and he is a living legend so yeah, it’s a lot but his guitars keep their value and I’m sure once he is totally done building or gone, they will for sure become collectors and drive up prices
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to Mark2)
Mark2 you might have a comment. Some time in the late '80s-early '90s I tried a Lester Devoe blanca at Guitar Solo while it was still on Clement Street. I liked my '67 Ramirez considerably better. The Devoe seemed thin and nasal to me.
Did his style change a lot since then? I haven't had a recent one in my hands, but on the internet they sound great to me.
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
I admit I have only played 3. One, belonging to Juan Martin, was very good. Another, belonging to an American aquintance was very ordinary, the other belonging to Ramón Amador and allegedly ex Sabicas, was fairly worn out, rather like the mythical Faustino which Ceprero recently retired.
I could buy two top class guitars for this money and still have change.
Posts: 2007
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
Richard I have a 1970 Ramirez 1a blanca that I bought for 700.00 in the early 80's. It's a great guitar but I think the Devoe is better. The Devoe was made as a lefty but not the Ramirez. The slight difference in playability might be due to that but I think I've probably adapted to whatever differences there might be. When you really dig into the Devoe, really put your all in it, it produces a great sound. I don't think the Ramirez requires as much effort but still has a great tone.
I guess I could record both and compare, but I think they are both really good. Maybe I just need to like the Devoe more because it was ten times the money, but it was also made to my specs, for me. I also gigged with the Ramirez and it has taken a beating. The Devoe hasn't left the house but once or twice. I think the present condition of each plays into my impression.
My wife and kids surprised me for my 60th with a custom surfboard, and it's the same deal. My son in law is a great surfer, and he worked with the shaper on all the details, him knowing how I surf and the type of waves I'd be riding. Of course it's my favorite board.
I remember maybe 30 or so years ago being offered a green colored Devoe, but being left handed, I wasn't able to really evaluate it. So I really can't answer your question. Didn't have the money anyway, and already had the Ramirez.
Guitar solo relocated to a location near the waterfront, but they are still around. Great shop.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan
Mark2 you might have a comment. Some time in the late '80s-early '90s I tried a Lester Devoe blanca at Guitar Solo while it was still on Clement Street. I liked my '67 Ramirez considerably better. The Devoe seemed thin and nasal to me.
Did his style change a lot since then? I haven't had a recent one in my hands, but on the internet they sound great to me.
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to sleevebradley)
Mark2, awesome stories man. Lester told me he basically builds a Santos with his own modifications. He told me he copied the Santos of his teacher, and as you say the rest is history. I've owned 5 Devoes, 3 I've sold which I regretted at first but I was able to get 2 more Devoes due to sale and they are better which I didn't think possible but there you have it.
I've played many Devoes, 80s, 90s, 2ks etc... Most were spectacular though I have played some duds. My last Devoe I picked up in June and is my fav to play in my collection. Its a blanca, the playability is the best in my collection. This alone is worth the price. Plus the specs i requested were all met by Lester. The sound is very developed and loud for a new guitar. A really cool feature I requested was a matte finish on the neck. It feels like baby powder. I know over time it will get shinny but the material the finish is made of still has a different feel than the finish on the body.
My two cents buy whatever axe is going to make you happy at the end of the day thats all that matters.
Posts: 2007
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: *NOT FOR SALE* - question about ... (in reply to mt1007)
Wow, you are blessed. My friend from LA had him build a blanca and that particular guitar is so good a few pros have offered to buy it. He then found a used negra by Lester. I asked him if he'd ever buy another flamenco guitar and he said it would be tough. Said he'd kinda feel like an ass&o&e to have more.
I've got a few more lessor flamenco guitars than the two, plus several electrics. I'm glad I don't suffer from my buddy's guilt! I'll probably thin the herd at some point, but the Ramirez and the Devoe aren't going anywhere. Playing left handed is weird. When you finally get a good guitar, it's hard to let it go. Still regret selling a 1964-5 left handed strat. That's the one that got away.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mt1007
Mark2, awesome stories man. Lester told me he basically builds a Santos with his own modifications. He told me he copied the Santos of his teacher, and as you say the rest is history. I've owned 5 Devoes, 3 I've sold which I regretted at first but I was able to get 2 more Devoes due to sale and they are better which I didn't think possible but there you have it.
I've played many Devoes, 80s, 90s, 2ks etc... Most were spectacular though I have played some duds. My last Devoe I picked up in June and is my fav to play in my collection. Its a blanca, the playability is the best in my collection. This alone is worth the price. Plus the specs i requested were all met by Lester. The sound is very developed and loud for a new guitar. A really cool feature I requested was a matte finish on the neck. It feels like baby powder. I know over time it will get shinny but the material the finish is made of still has a different feel than the finish on the body.
My two cents buy whatever axe is going to make you happy at the end of the day thats all that matters.
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