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RE: Solera Flamenca Strings   You are logged in as Guest
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Ricardo

Posts: 12673
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to machopicasso

If you play a lot, like every few days your guitar with hard tension strings, it is fine. The string breaks before it hurts the guitar. If you keep your guitar out on a stand to dry out...then the hard tension basses can do some damage over time if you never play the thing. I have seen it happen...but I think it can happen the same with normal tension strings as well. I keep my dads guitar tuned flat because I don’t play it as much as my flamenco guitars, and it stays in the case when I am not playing it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2020 16:17:26
 
12850bd

 

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 9 2006
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to machopicasso

I agree with what you have said. I have a 1974 blanca conde. It has a scale length of 667mm and I have used both luthier EJ45 and Luthier 30s on it for as long as i can remember. In the early days i used red savarez, To this day ( 46 years ) no issue and the neck is dead straight...If the guitar is well built should be no problem. However if playability is an issue then lighter strings may be a good option.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 22 2020 2:01:48
 
rombsix

Posts: 7483
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to 12850bd



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Ramzi

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 23 2020 4:07:51
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 899
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

I keep my dads guitar tuned flat because I don’t play it as much as my flamenco guitars, and it stays in the case when I am not playing it.


How flat do you keep your dad's guitar when it stays in the case?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2020 5:06:32
 
ddias

 

Posts: 54
Joined: Apr. 16 2017
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

I'm a fan of Luthier 20's - best strings I've tried so far on my blanca. Went back to a set of D'Addario EJ25C I had lying around in a cupboard and it isn't the same, for me at least.

I ordered a set of the Solera strings - the professional edition. They arrived in 3 days to Germany - I'll string them up my guitar and share my findings when I get a break from the relentless cooking, cleaning (and eating) that Xmas seems to entail...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2020 13:29:26
 
Piwin

Posts: 3162
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to kitarist

Thanks kitarist. This is really interesting stuff.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 26 2020 16:29:37
 
kitarist

Posts: 1177
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to dartemo1

quote:

ORIGINAL: dartemo1

Interesting; just have measured Oasis GPX+ normal tension on my guitar, which have been there for about 3 months.
''' Measured Gauge (Stringsbymail)
1st 0.023 0.024
2nd 0.027 0.027
3rd 0.033 0.033

What is surprising, the ultimate tensile strength of nylon is ~12,000 psi. For a 0.024" string it is about 5.4 lbs. How come they are used at tension of 21 lbs?


Sorry for the delay in replying.

I don't know how to explain the apparent discrepancy between UTS and the e-string being used at seemingly 3 times above UTS (highest I've seen on nylon is 15 or so lbs of tension, not 21). The UTS given must be wrong?

As to your measurements, you should compare before and after as measured by you since the listed diameters are just statistical means: the actual string's diameter out of the package can be slightly larger or smaller.

This could explain why on some trebles you do not register a difference between listed diameter and after stabilization at tension.

The other reason is that you might need a micrometer (good to 1/1000 of mm rather than 1/1000 of inch) to get more accurate measurements.

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Konstantin
Foro cante accompaniment practice tracks (zip file)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2021 22:15:41
 
Echi

 

Posts: 826
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

I’d be happy if someone tries these strings and shares their opinion but the explanation of Jordi is not convincing (at least with me).
My guess is that Solera just wants to enter the business of the strings for flamenco guitar and a medium tension pack is the best option to start with.
Richard Bruné wrote an unsurpassed paper about the relation between the guitar of Torres and the birth of the flamenco guitar and yet I disagree with the idea that the geometry of the flamenco guitar requires medium tension strings by itself.
It’s just a matter of “pulsacion” aka to compensate the natural stiffness/bounciness of the top with the best strings.
Other than that, the only thing that matters is to discover if the Solera strings are good or not.

Btw Antonio Rey endorses the new Luthier strings. Did somebody tried them?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2021 13:19:52
 
JasonM

Posts: 1565
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Echi

quote:

My guess is that Solera just wants to enter the business of the strings for flamenco guitar and a medium tension pack is the best option to start with.


Well, given that Solera preferred Luthier strings before makes me “assume” they wouldn’t want to use a string that didn’t sound close as good. But who knows, he sure did rattle off a lot of BS.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2021 16:45:00
 
Echi

 

Posts: 826
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

A good plus with Luthier strings used to be that they were "ready to go" strings with an open tone. Imho D'addario tends to give their best after longer time and have a rounder tone.
I agree that for a shop like that it's best to have a kind of a standard for strings, mics and performers. Yet I'm sure they could have easily replaced their to go choice with Knobloks or a different brand.
Instead Jordi preferred to take contact with a string company and put their name on top of it: Are the Solera strings any good, I don't have a clue.
I suppose they genuinely looked for a good product but I'm not sure they found it.
My point is that strings have a good market and probably offer a good margin otherwise you wouldn't see so many brands around.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2021 19:00:58
 
mt1007

Posts: 139
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

Just got them and put them on my 93 Devoe blanca. I'll let you guys know whats up.

Here are some specs:





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 16 2021 5:50:12
 
kitarist

Posts: 1177
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to mt1007

Wow, the g-string is thick; also it and the bass-E have basically the same diameter (!) I've never seen this on a set.

Did you get a chance to measure the actual diameters before you put them on?

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Konstantin
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 16 2021 7:03:36
 
mt1007

Posts: 139
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

gauge at zero
6th: 1.02mm
3rd: 1.04mm







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Attachment (3)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 16 2021 17:05:10
 
mt1007

Posts: 139
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

So after having these strings on for some time, I must be honest. I like them. My review is not to confirm, nor validate their findings/statements this is just my take. The strings once on feel very balanced in tension across all 6 strings. You get a nice bounce on the right hand and a nice flexibility on left. They are very comfortable. The sound is also very in the middle, not too bright nor to warm a very neutral sound like D’addario’s. I think they are very much after the Luthier vibe/sound yet with improvements. The thing I miss and hope they fix or work on in the future is the basses. I appreciate their response, flexibility and tension yet I miss the sound/punch a heavier, thicker wound string can provide. I can't remember how thick Luthier basses are but the Solera basses are very similar if memory serves me rihgt. I normally use Philippe Bosset basses for their nice warm strong punchy sound. I also use Savarez Cantiga but I think they are more expensive than Bosset basses. I don’t know what stringsbymail.com will charge once they start to distribute, if they are affordable and priced better than Knoblach I for sure would recommend.

peace....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2021 21:16:14
 
JasonM

Posts: 1565
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to mt1007

Thanks for the review, mt!

Did you order them directly from Solera in Spain?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2021 22:54:43
 
mt1007

Posts: 139
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

direct from Spain homie
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2021 6:49:38
 
kitarist

Posts: 1177
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

String Tension formulae (RE: Solera ... (in reply to kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

the tension is a theoretical number based on a calculation of variables.

[..]
The formula itself is an accurate calculation of the tension (as long as we use the proper stretched-and-stabilized-string diameter): if we somehow measure that real tension directly with some contraption, it would be the same as what we calculated with the formula.
[..]
I'll post about the formula in a day or two; I want to first figure out how the different formulations floating around are related to one another so I can explain it clearly.



Sorry about the delay.
(In the equations below, the first number is just an equation number and not part of the formula; also, please ignore the over-expaining in places as I wrote this up first to reply in another forum).


Density is mass per unit volume (so 'density' is typically short for 'volume density'; in physics usually denoted by Greek letter ρ (rho)).

UW in D'Addario's formula, what they call 'Unit Weight', is a mass per unit length, i.e. linear density. In physics it would be typically denoted by the Greek letter μ (mu).

The two are related - and in the case of a string with diameter d, the relationship looks like this:

(1) μ = (π/4) * (d^2) * ρ

i.e. just considering the string as a cylinder with cross-sectional area A = (π/4) * (d^2).

It just so happens that the squared velocity v^2 of a wave on a string of diameter d, density ρ, and thus linear density μ = (π/4) * (d^2) * ρ, with the string under tension T, is

(2) v^2 = T/μ

On the other hand, any wave velocity is related to its frequency f and wave period λ (Greek lambda) by v = f * λ. For a wave on a guitar string the wave period is twice the guitar scale length L, so

(3) v = 2 * f * L

From eqs. (1), (2) and (3) it follows that the tension T can be expressed as:

(4) T = 4 * μ * (f^2) * (L^2) , and also as:

(5) T = π * ρ * (d^2) * (f^2) * (L^2)

The tension formulae (4) and (5) would give you tension force in Newtons, i.e. [ kg*m/(s^2) ] (kilograms*meters/seconds_squared), and expect to be fed L and d in meters, and densities in kg/(m^3) for ρ or kg/m for μ.

That's it.

From here on all the apparent differences in formulae seen floating on the internets are due to using different units for tension, length (affects L and d) and densities (people use different units for convenience or out of previous practices), and to absorbing the π or 4 into the resultant combined unit-conversion factor.


Case A: Mimmo's (Aquilla) equation for string tension gives tension T in kg force instead of Newtons; expects diameter to be entered in mm (not meters), and expects density to be entered in grams/(cm^3), not kg/(m^3). We will use the tension equation in its form (5) as the starting point.

Accounting for these changes in units and absorbing the π means that the right-hand side in eq. (5) (without showing π) has to be divided by

(1000/π) * 9.80665 = 3121.6 approximately, where 9.80665 is an average Earth acceleration due to gravity.

Thus equation (5) becomes:

(5.1) T = ρ * (d^2) * (f^2) * (L^2) / 3121.6

which is essentially Mimmo's equation except for rounding the unit-conversion factor to the nearest integer.


Case B: In contrast, D'Addario's equation gives you tension T in lbf (pounds force) and expects linear density entered in lb/in and scale length in inches. We will use the tension equation in its form (4) as the starting point.

This little table shows you why the change in tension units from N to lbf means dividing eq. (4) by approx. 4.45 and the change in length units from meters to inches means dividing (4) by approx. 39.37; the two combined mean dividing eq. (4) by 386.1:




Thus equation (4) becomes:

(4.1) T = 4 * μ * (f^2) * (L^2) / 386.1

which is essentially D'Addario's equation except for a small correction of the actual factor - it is 386.1; not 386.4.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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Konstantin
Foro cante accompaniment practice tracks (zip file)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2021 21:03:13
 
AndresK

Posts: 92
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

Hello. I think that you must have already noticed that Solera strings are on strings by mail too. I noticed the time I saw Luthier too the other day. A bit expensive though. Luciano Ghosn also endorses them now along with Jeronimo Maya and many others, most of them having played on solera's videos in the past, so it seems reasonable they were among the first to be given some to try.

I ordered Luthier 20's and Solera concert to compare but it will take some time until they come to Greece from strings by mail. Very funny I ordered 3 sets of strings that are made in Europe, where I live, from the United States. I got Luthier 20, Solera concert medium and Dogal diamante regular. I hope those strings will not be too tired from travelling back and forth to get here.

There was also a very interesting post from Aquila's owner Mimmo saying the exact plants that make nylon and fluorocarbon in the world and the exact tension the companies can order from them. I assume most people here know of these, but if anyone is interested I could repost his comment here on a relative thread (I am not sure which?).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2021 16:54:55
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3306
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to AndresK

quote:

Very funny I ordered 3 sets of strings that are made in Europe, where I live, from the United States.


I ordered a CD on Amazon marketplace in the UK. It came from Japan. On the disc it said, "made in the EU".

we live in a very crazy world.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2021 21:00:11
 
AndresK

Posts: 92
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
 

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo

Here is Luciano trying solera's strings.



edit: further opinion on the solera strings by Luciano Ghosn:

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2021 8:54:41
 
rombsix

Posts: 7483
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to AndresK



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Ramzi

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2021 4:51:55
 
JasonM

Posts: 1565
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to rombsix

Solera should send Ricardo some strings too
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2021 21:23:32
 
rombsix

Posts: 7483
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to JasonM

quote:

Solera should send Ricardo some strings too


Only if he agrees to say they're da bomb.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2021 21:42:28
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3015
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to machopicasso

I used Savarez "fort tirant" 520R Red Cards on my Arcangel Fernandez blanca for nearly 20 years. When Richard Brune appraised it he commented that it had a thin top.

With the Red Cards the fan braces "printed" behind the bridge after a few years, but I kept using them. When I recently switched to the lower tension Savarez 520B White Cards the printing disappeared. The White Cards feel a little different, but I didn't notice much change in loudness. The tone is a tiny bit warmer.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2021 21:23:48
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