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RE: All the Solea   You are logged in as Guest
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orsonw

Posts: 1407
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: All the Solea (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I also like the guitar playing, I would like to hear solea in that key ,but more older style cante lines, I think that would be very cool.


Another with Montse Cortés, the guitar comes in towards the end.





Letra:

Si los huesos me crujieran como crujen los piñones
no me dolería tanto como tus malas acciones.

Quisiera ser la sangre que te recorre por dentro
pa saber lo que tú tienes metío en el pensamiento.

Ni me mires ni me hables
que ni delante de la gente
no me pongas mal semblante.

Creí que se bebían las lágrimas
que cuando vi que se mascaban
grandes duquelas tendría.

Sale el sol
Amarillo sale el sol
manifestando las ducas
que tengo en mi corazón.

Singing some of the same letras with guitar. The guitar is standard tuning/chords but modern voicing/variations.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2016 20:42:47
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1766
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

cuadrao style

What is that? Couldn't find it on Norman's solea page. Does it mean very square, i.e. for dancers?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2016 23:27:16
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: All the Solea (in reply to orsonw

Indeed that's what it is!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2016 0:28:43
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7518
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to orsonw

Cuadrao means it is formatted to work for a dancers standard format and often starting a letra in the same place and ending it in the same place and the corte's or breaks are in regular places.

but that does not mean all dancing and singing for dancing is like that, sometimes dancers break t of the format an throw the guitar player a singer a curve, and sometimes singers decide they want to go outside and throw stuff at the dancers that was not pre-arranged. Really advanced performers mess around with these ideas to keep it interesting for themselves. Dancers might for example try a break in an unusual place an the guitar player has to catch it. Or the singer might start a line off the back beat and come out somewhere odd in the next comas and the others have to stay with it. Extra sixes, and even extra extra sixes and in Tangos extra fours.

I think Riardo is saying that for the most part Indio Gitano stays in a boxy regular format and does not get too outside a kind of dance format or straight forward singing format. Without listening to that cut, I would say he probably sings two liines and two line of cambio, takes a one of two compas break then does the same thing. or close to that. I have to go find that cut on a chanel that is not restricted here.

A good example of something that is cuadrao is Sevillanas, it always a set fromat.

Fromat or format. Andaluz English. Crobatta or corbatta? Are andakuzs jsut dyslexic?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2016 3:41:11
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2637
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Ricardo

Thanks, Ricardo for the "modern" stuff. Not sure how recent the Manolo Sanlucar/Indio Gitano is, but it's certainly not your grandmother's solea. The Duquende/Paco/Cañizares Solea is definitely several harmonic steps removed from the traditional. El Indio Gitano's later solea is like you said, textbook and cuadrao. The Montse Cortez and Diego del Morao SpB is innovative, but not that far out.

It takes a while for the general public to catch up to new stuff in any art form. Beethoven's late quartets were received with shock and horror, not only by the general public, but by the most cultured musicians and critics of the time, the 1820s. And they had years before that to get used to him coming up with new stuff all the time. It wasn't until 30 to 40 years later that the musicians and public caught up to them.

When the Miró Quartet played them here summer before last, everyone was ecstatic. It was a University crowd, but everyone really dug them. Probably 80% of the audience had grown up with them..

The 9-piece band I organized in high school in the early 1950s could read a big band swing type score and get a piece down tight in one rehearsal. We would get together on Saturday and listen to the top 40 and play along with the top 10 or 12, so we could do requests at dances. But Bebop was too much for them. Only one of the guys, Jimmy V., tenor sax player, was into one of the musical revolutions of the time, Rhythm and Blues. The white kids we hung with thought it was pretty risque.

I had to find some other guys to try to play bop with. I wasn't very good at it. I did better in a pro mambo band one summer, though it was fairly new stuff at the time as well. They needed someone who could play the high notes all night. My classical training was just the thing. The leader put me to woodshedding with the conga player until i was breathing, walking, dreaming the clave. Then he let me play solos.

The young conductor of the Washington Summer Symphony had a composer friend. One night at rehearsal parts were passed out for one of his pieces. The composer had made a study of Stravinsky and picked up his style pretty well. We murdered the piece. The constantly changing key and time signatures and the astringent harmonies threw us off. This was 40 years after the premiere of Le Sacre du Printemps, and 90% of the band were conservatory students. After one more try a week later, the conductor gave the parts back to his friend. We could play Brahms and Haydn pretty well.

Thirty years later I was at a trendy new restaurant in San Francisco with my Japanese girlfriend. There was an alto sax, drummer and bass. They were just background until something clicked, and I chuckled.

"What's funny Richard?"

"Guy is playing like Bird--Charlie Parker--one of the great revolutionaries of jazz."

She listened for a minute and said, "Richard, everybody plays like that."

"Exactly."

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2016 6:40:19
 
orsonw

Posts: 1407
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: All the Solea (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I would say he probably sings two liines and two line of cambio, takes a one of two compas break then does the same thing. or close to that. I have to go find that cut on a chanel that is not restricted here.


Yes, you are right.

In case you can view this, here's another version Ricardo mentioned.
Quoting Ricardo- "Joaquin 1,2, buleria corta, Joaquin 3, and buleria remate."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2016 7:07:32
 
orsonw

Posts: 1407
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: All the Solea (in reply to estebanana

I am adding the letra for Ricardo's other example. The letra, like the youtube videos can be found easily on the internet so, if it is not useful to post them here, please let me know and I'll stop?

EDIT - I just noticed that Norman has just adopted that letra resource onto his site- http://canteytoque.es/letras.html




quote:

Here he is singing text book versions of Joaquin de Paula 1,2, and 3 in order, almost exactly cuadrao. (Second line gets stretched over into the 3rd compas).

Del manantial de tus labios
que yo tengo que beber algún día
si no con estos agravios
van a acabar con mi vida

A punto estoy de perder
toditos mis cinco sentidos
flamenca por tu querer

Anda vete cuando quieras
si a tu vera estoy pasando
las duquelas compañera

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2016 8:26:59
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7518
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to orsonw

Some good stuff on this podcast this week; Manuel Valencia accompanying por solea which will probably make old farts and young weasels both happy. And some flashy SPB.


http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/audios/nuestro-flamenco/

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2016 11:39:30
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1766
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to orsonw

quote:


Del manantial de tus labios
que yo tengo que beber algún día
si no con estos agravios
van a acabar con mi vida

A punto estoy de perder
toditos mis cinco sentidos
flamenca por tu querer

Anda vete cuando quieras
si a tu vera estoy pasando
las duquelas compañera


Muchas gracias Orsonw!!!

Here is a rough attempt at a translation...

The spring of your lips
I have to drink someday
If not with these grievances
They will end my life

At this point I'm losing
All my five senses
Flemenca for your love

Walk away when you want
If you side I am crossing sides
The troubled companion

The line that's hardest for me is "si a tu vera estoy pasando" - how would others here translate it?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2016 3:58:22
 
Nito

Posts: 76
Joined: Sep. 3 2015
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

The line that's hardest for me is "si a tu vera estoy pasando" - how would others here translate it?


Dudnote,

'vera' is synonyms of 'lado'

the meaning could be 'close to you'

Therefore, the translation could be: 'if close to you I'm passing...'

I hope it helps you

p.d. 'verita tuya' is very usually used on flamenco lyrics. Could be translated like 'ladito tuyo'

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2016 14:07:23
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1766
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Nito

Muchas gracias Nito!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2016 17:48:18
 
TGerman

 

Posts: 119
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

The line that's hardest for me is "si a tu vera estoy pasando" - how would others here translate it?


I would say "If I am passing by your side" or "If I am passing by you"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2016 10:10:52
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1766
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to estebanana



La Serneta 1 (Utrera)
Tengo el gusto tan colmado
tengo el gusto tan colmado
cuando te tengo a mi vera
y que si me dieran la muerte
creo que no la sintiera

La Serneta 3
Yo nunca a mi ley falté
nunca de mi ley falté
que te tengo tan presente
como la primera vez

Frijones 2 (Jerez)
Acuérdate cuando entonces
acuérdate cuando entonces
bajabas descalza a abrirme
y ahora no me conoces
compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2016 4:25:34
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11211
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Dudnote

Well done! (Although I think all those are direct from Norman's examples no?)

Here's a tough one. Solea is from 7:30-12:00 abouts:


Joaquin 1,

Frijones 2 (with the characteristic Extremadura b5 in the cambio!)

???? Again the Jaleo's type b5 move (C7-F with the Bb note sung)

Joaquin 3 (although I know there are some variants based on this style I can't recall if one resolves to Am as he does where he took a breath, no time to check it against Norman's examples).

Added note: on Normans site the Jaleo I refer to is called "Jerez Anonymous"...the first lines all would be going to G so none of that here, but I refer to the usage of the cambio harmony (second and third lines of verse) as is typically done.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2016 11:52:42
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1766
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Although I think all those are direct from Norman's examples no?

Yeah, I hit lucky, started with the video, then found it all on Norman's site. Begginer's luck!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 26 2016 4:37:53
 
barberoradio

 

Posts: 1
Joined: May 27 2016
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to orsonw

Buenas tardes, alguien podría decirme con exactitud que tipo de solea es esta que canta Arcangel el disco quijote de los sueños.

vivo para recordarte se titula
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 27 2016 14:59:00
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1766
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to barberoradio

Too bad I only get 10% of what he's saying, but this seems quite a nice little analysis of some basics.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2017 23:20:29
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