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RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro   You are logged in as Guest
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runner

 

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to El Kiko

I think the difference in the sorts of posts that are exhibited on the Foro can be easily and simply attributed to what is commonly referred to as "class". Some people have it, and some don't. For those unfamiliar with the usage of this term as implied here, I offer the following (old) jewel: "I cried because I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no class."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 13:56:48
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to runner

It seems the overall intentions here are good, but really this is a lot of men talking about what they think women want (which is usually wrong /newsflash). Ladies, if you are reading this, please speak up!!

My suggestion to the people taking a hard stance on this is to offer to help moderate, or at the very least click "report abuse" on posts they feel are offensive. This does create a lot of work for Simon, so perhaps he would prefer the moderation help.

Where I come from, the women have a tougher skin than you guys are suggesting. Many of them have made me blush on occasion, which is not an easy feat. I'm not trying to justify any sexist or offensive posts, nor can I recall making any myself. I just think perhaps this is getting a bit blown out of proportion. This forum is extremely tame compared to most I have been a member of.

Lastly, I'm reminded of an acoustic I owned years ago with a beautiful Claro Walnut back. I showed it to my wife and her best friend with no suggestive comments, and guess what the first comment out of their mouths was? I guess my wife and her friend are just not up to the standards of the gladiators of gentlemanly conduct here on the Foro?

_____________________________

Ryan
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 14:35:24
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to runner

quote:

Quote from Keith: i think the following is salient to the original question. kalo piped in stating she is female and yet no one stopped and thought about asking her your view point or even acknowledged her.


Hi Keith,

That is why I replied that I am female and you are correct, no one even stopped to acknowledge my reply!!! I even stated that I am still playing flamenco guitar as well...

Maybe the guys on this forum want the flamenco dancer babes to chime in instead

Thanks Keith for acknowledging my post

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 14:49:32
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1629
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Kalo

Anybody noticed that there are no posts on flamenco for several days?

In Andalucía, it is taken for granted that most flamencos are taurinos and most taurinos are flamencos ( it has been so from the beginning).

Since most posters on the foro are anti taurino, logic implies that most of the posters on this site are not flamencos.

This seems to explain the lack of knowledge and/or interest in flamenco, except in guitars, guitar strings, wood etc.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 15:13:41
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Kalo

quote:

Hi Keith,

That is why I replied that I am female and you are correct, no one even stopped to acknowledge my reply!!! I even stated that I am still playing flamenco guitar as well...

Maybe the guys on this forum want the flamenco dancer babes to chime in instead

Thanks Keith for acknowledging my post

Kalo


Hi Kalo!

Thanks for chiming in I'm always very happy to see female flamenco guitar players - there aren't nearly enough in my opinion. I don't know the current state of things in Spain in this regard, but I would bet that it's not as easy for women to gain the respect they deserve as compared to men. One poster here commented that it was the common theme of pushing girls into dance and boys into guitar.

I would love to hear your opinion about the state of things on the Foro. I'm not asking you to single anyone out, but in general have you encountered many posts that you consider personally offensive for one reason or another? Has it deterred you from visiting the Foro or contributing in any way?

_____________________________

Ryan
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 15:15:50
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to ralexander

quote:

gladiators of gentlemanly conduct




_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 15:19:47
 
edguerin

Posts: 1545
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

Even when I was an avid and eager contributor on the Foro, I always had to navigate cautiously through temperamental characters, sordid language, provocations and insults, but I enjoyed the part I came in to read or discuss. Ultimately, however, I too succumbed to the unpleasant climate a few had precipitated for all to suffer. I learned to only open and read posts written by those whom I respect, and plainly avoid the ones I learned to safely presume are ill conceived.

One does not need to be a woman to resent this place, any intelligent person does or will at some point. One simply needs to become selectively deaf (or blind) to go through the garbage many dump here, to find the treasures that a few still find time to contribute.

I most heartily agree! As always you have put it very succinctly and diplomatically.

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 15:39:51
 
Kalo

 

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to runner

quote:

I would love to hear your opinion about the state of things on the Foro. I'm not asking you to single anyone out, but in general have you encountered many posts that you consider personally offensive for one reason or another? Has it deterred you from visiting the Foro or contributing in any way?


Hi Ryan,

I have a "THICK SKIN" so I am not really bothered if a post is offensive. I usually ignore it...Sometimes my jaw drops when other members post offensive replies, but, again, I tend not to dwell on it.

As for being a female, I have NOT encountered any negative post toward woman dancer of female guitarist....

I laugh when guys remark about the hot babe flamenco dancer or female flamenco guitarist. It is normal and I do not find it offensive.

Whenever I have posted on the forum all my questions where answered respectfully and I have always found the forum VERY helpful!!!!

The reason why I have not posted as much is that my personal life has become hective! I still find time to play every day and I do check in the forum quite often...

It would be cool to see other female flamenco dancers and guitarists post, I am not really sure that the lack of woman on this forum has anything to do with offensive post or flamenco being a man's world when it comes to guitar....

However, it might help if there was a little less negativity on this forum! Would the foro have more traffic if all negativity stopped? I am not sure!!!!

Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:16:57
 
akatune

 

Posts: 188
Joined: Mar. 28 2008
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to runner

If its ok to ban seriously contributing members like Jason Mcguire, then we surely won't miss those who contribute mostly fluff and inanity.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:18:47
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3146
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Kalo

quote:

That is why I replied that I am female and you are correct, no one even stopped to acknowledge my reply!!! I even stated that I am still playing flamenco guitar as well...Maybe the guys on this forum want the flamenco dancer babes to chime in instead


C'mon Kalo, this is your second post on a thread entitled "Let's Have a Conversation about Women Participants and the Foro," and you have said nothing about your views or opinion on the subject. We know you are female, and I am happy you still play flamenco guitar, but what are your thoughts and opinions regarding women and the Foro? It is a bit disingenuous to suggest that, "Maybe the guys on this forum want the flamenco dancer babes to chime in instead," when you have offered no thoughts on the subject yourself. Are you waiting for an engraved invitation?

So let's cut to the chase. Of course we would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on women and the Foro. That's what this thread is about. What is your opinion about the Foro and women, and what has been expressed in this thread to date?

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:21:16
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3146
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Kalo

Kalo,

Thanks for your contribution. I posted my comment above before your post containing your thoughts and views appeared in this thread. That's the kind of contribution I think we are all looking for. You and Cristina have offered some insight. It would be nice if other women who are members of the Foro would offer their views as well.

Again, thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:25:45
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Kalo

quote:

Would the foro have more traffic if all negativity stopped?


I believe so.

Then again, if the war subject isn't women, then it will be something else. Even if all the women who are active right now at the foro would state that they don't care about the jokes/attacks/etc, someone would come up with another excuse like "Oh, but that's not statistically relevant because we have few women here".

Had you said that you feel really sick and disgusted about something here, your statement would have been taken as the ultimate truth.


I guess we're all humans here so.. why bother?

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:27:49
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to ralexander

quote:

Lastly, I'm reminded of an acoustic I owned years ago with a beautiful Claro Walnut back. I showed it to my wife and her best friend with no suggestive comments, and guess what the first comment out of their mouths was? I guess my wife and her friend are just not up to the standards of the gladiators of gentlemanly conduct here on the Foro?

__________________


Yes that is a good story, but context is everything. Obviously your wife and her friend feel safe and comfortable around you. Ask her if she would like to venture the same off the cuff remarks in a room full sexist talking guys she did not know.

To the Foro in general:


Everyone here represents themselves and people reading who are in the silent majority of non active posters know you by your remarks.

Since it is mainly guitar players here, I just want to say that I don't approve of or think it is funny or cute to sexualize guitars to the point where it would make someone uncomfortable. Just because you are not sensitive to it does not mean a passive reader thinks it is ok.


Something to think about.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:33:34
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to akatune

quote:

If its ok to ban seriously contributing members like Jason Mcguire, then we surely won't miss those who contribute mostly fluff and inanity.


But down deep inside Jason is really very fluffy!

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:36:50
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

in a room


This is the little thing that, for the third time, you don't seem to be aware of. The foro is at max a CHAT room, virtual, internet based.. this isn't real life nor should you try to make it so.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:38:20
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 6 2014 22:47:01
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:45:23
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

Hmm..

Do you really know what sexist means?


Maybe you were raised with a very uptight education, I don't know your past but I've respected your point of view. There's little need for that kind of attitude.


Grab a beer, chillax

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:50:42
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 6 2014 21:39:42
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:53:21
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 6 2014 17:03:09
Reason for deletion: Unhelpful
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:54:45
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

Thanks!

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 16:56:10
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to runner

Hey you just said this was not real so **** you.

Does it seem more real to you now ?

You guys who think just because you're on line it's not real are complete idiots.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 17:00:55
 
Escribano

Posts: 6146
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

Stephen, you have been provoking this discussion based on your own anecdotal evidence that it is putting off women and now you resort to cussing out those that disagree with you. So what is the point of a discussion?

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 17:02:35
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3072
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

You're acting like a child but it's still as real as it was to me.

FWIW, I didn't say it isn't real, I just stated the difference between people sharing the same space and people writing on the internet.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 17:04:53
 
Mark2

Posts: 1588
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to runner

Miguel,
I don't know any Alaskan girls crabbing, but there was a female on one of those Alaskan fishing shows, but you are correct in that is likely a rare thing.
I do think it's funny that on a forum dominated by flamenco guitarists people are lamenting the lack of women, when the flamenco dance world, particularly students of all levels, is dominated by women. where are the women? they are dancing! Go to class and you will be surrounded by them.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 18:02:49
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3524
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Escribano

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

Stephen, you have been provoking this discussion based on your own anecdotal evidence that it is putting off women and now you resort to cussing out those that disagree with you. So what is the point of a discussion?


Stephen got over-emotional and lost it, but it is Sr. Martins who is doing the provoking, and I would say intentionally. He voiced his disagreement, "cast his vote", early on--the rest are nothing more than one-liner barbs. I only point this out because I consider it an example of the type of caustic behavior that led to Stephen posting, and that has been a recurring problem on the foro.

_____________________________

Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ


Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 18:10:18
 
Escribano

Posts: 6146
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Miguel de Maria

I concur and Sr. Martins should recall that he has used one word replies involving women's genitalia in the past. I have deleted enough of them. His posts will now need my approval for a while.

I want the same respectful behaviour online as in real life, so we disagree on that as well.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 18:19:10
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Yes that is a good story, but context is everything. Obviously your wife and her friend feel safe and comfortable around you. Ask her if she would like to venture the same off the cuff remarks in a room full sexist talking guys she did not know.


Yep, fair point. I guess my point was that if I had said "hey, what does this look like winkwinknudgenudge", either way they were already thinking it without any coaxing from me. I think the same could likely be said about (m)any women that didn't know me, although I concede that their reaction to me pointing it out would differ depending on how they perceived me or the vibe of the particular situation. So then is it wrong for someone to say what everyone is (in theory) already thinking? Maybe so depending on your sensibilities. Human beings are sexual creatures by nature, and I can't say I agree that we should endeavor to protect women from what we think they shouldn't or don't want to hear. At any rate, women are clearly not the only people getting offended by this kind of talk around here, so use your REPORT ABUSE buttons people and let the great and powerful OZ make the call. If that doesn't work, move on to the next thread or better yet, back away from the computer and do something constructive. Being rude and hateful is certainly no better of a contribution.

_____________________________

Ryan
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 18:38:17
 
Escribano

Posts: 6146
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to ralexander

I had a wild night in Halifax many years ago, on payday which I think was a Thursday. Only place I have been in Canada Ended up on the roof terrace of a bar somewhere downtown.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 18:45:13
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1251
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to runner

It would be nice if we had more women on this forum. It would mean that there are some that are interested in flamenco guitar (because this is what this forum has been primarily so far).

However, for me personally flamenco artists (and any artists) have no gender. It is the same with this forum's participants. I was never aware of who was who on this forum. Not only gender, but also names, age and locations (for the rare exceptions). We share information and experiences and that's all that matters.

If you want to attract more women, perhaps starting a dance section would be nice. With pictures, videos, ads, etc. This could include dance accompaniment subsection, from which many here could learn. Just a thought.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 18:45:47
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Let's have a conversation about ... (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria


Stephen got over-emotional and lost it, but it is Sr. Martins who is doing the provoking, and I would say intentionally. He voiced his disagreement, "cast his vote", early on--the rest are nothing more than one-liner barbs. I only point this out because I consider it an example of the type of caustic behavior that led to Stephen posting, and that has been a recurring problem on the foro.


You sound as if Stephem could be behaving himself, Miguel.
However, he has a weird understanding of both discussion style and females, expecting women to be drawn away by sexual terms, but not by his own inability to discuss neglected themes coherently and without ressorting to titling people as ****s who be ****ed here and ****ed there.

He who can´t keep up a string of coherency for more than two aspects, and who is unparalled on the foro for intended insults and obscene cursing, is now unaskedly applying for galantry in defence of the weak gender.

Quite an oblique case of hypocrisy if you ask me.

I agree on critisizm against genital talk, but do not think that it needs out of all Stephen´s pointing to vulgar or superficial postings.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 6 2014 18:45:59
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