RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Full Version)

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runner -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 13:56:48)

I think the difference in the sorts of posts that are exhibited on the Foro can be easily and simply attributed to what is commonly referred to as "class". Some people have it, and some don't. For those unfamiliar with the usage of this term as implied here, I offer the following (old) jewel: "I cried because I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no class."



ralexander -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 14:35:24)

It seems the overall intentions here are good, but really this is a lot of men talking about what they think women want (which is usually wrong /newsflash). Ladies, if you are reading this, please speak up!!

My suggestion to the people taking a hard stance on this is to offer to help moderate, or at the very least click "report abuse" on posts they feel are offensive. This does create a lot of work for Simon, so perhaps he would prefer the moderation help.

Where I come from, the women have a tougher skin than you guys are suggesting. Many of them have made me blush on occasion, which is not an easy feat. I'm not trying to justify any sexist or offensive posts, nor can I recall making any myself. I just think perhaps this is getting a bit blown out of proportion. This forum is extremely tame compared to most I have been a member of.

Lastly, I'm reminded of an acoustic I owned years ago with a beautiful Claro Walnut back. I showed it to my wife and her best friend with no suggestive comments, and guess what the first comment out of their mouths was? [8|] I guess my wife and her friend are just not up to the standards of the gladiators of gentlemanly conduct here on the Foro?



Kalo -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 14:49:32)

quote:

Quote from Keith: i think the following is salient to the original question. kalo piped in stating she is female and yet no one stopped and thought about asking her your view point or even acknowledged her.


Hi Keith,

That is why I replied that I am female and you are correct, no one even stopped to acknowledge my reply!!! I even stated that I am still playing flamenco guitar as well...

Maybe the guys on this forum want the flamenco dancer babes to chime in instead [;)]

Thanks Keith for acknowledging my post [:D]

Kalo



Morante -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 15:13:41)

Anybody noticed that there are no posts on flamenco for several days?

In Andalucía, it is taken for granted that most flamencos are taurinos and most taurinos are flamencos ( it has been so from the beginning).

Since most posters on the foro are anti taurino, logic implies that most of the posters on this site are not flamencos.

This seems to explain the lack of knowledge and/or interest in flamenco, except in guitars, guitar strings, wood etc.[:@]



ralexander -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 15:15:50)

quote:

Hi Keith,

That is why I replied that I am female and you are correct, no one even stopped to acknowledge my reply!!! I even stated that I am still playing flamenco guitar as well...

Maybe the guys on this forum want the flamenco dancer babes to chime in instead

Thanks Keith for acknowledging my post

Kalo


Hi Kalo!

Thanks for chiming in [:)] I'm always very happy to see female flamenco guitar players - there aren't nearly enough in my opinion. I don't know the current state of things in Spain in this regard, but I would bet that it's not as easy for women to gain the respect they deserve as compared to men. One poster here commented that it was the common theme of pushing girls into dance and boys into guitar.

I would love to hear your opinion about the state of things on the Foro. I'm not asking you to single anyone out, but in general have you encountered many posts that you consider personally offensive for one reason or another? Has it deterred you from visiting the Foro or contributing in any way?



Sr. Martins -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 15:19:47)

quote:

gladiators of gentlemanly conduct


[sm=lol.gif]



edguerin -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 15:39:51)

quote:

Even when I was an avid and eager contributor on the Foro, I always had to navigate cautiously through temperamental characters, sordid language, provocations and insults, but I enjoyed the part I came in to read or discuss. Ultimately, however, I too succumbed to the unpleasant climate a few had precipitated for all to suffer. I learned to only open and read posts written by those whom I respect, and plainly avoid the ones I learned to safely presume are ill conceived.

One does not need to be a woman to resent this place, any intelligent person does or will at some point. One simply needs to become selectively deaf (or blind) to go through the garbage many dump here, to find the treasures that a few still find time to contribute.

I most heartily agree! As always you have put it very succinctly and diplomatically.



Kalo -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:16:57)

quote:

I would love to hear your opinion about the state of things on the Foro. I'm not asking you to single anyone out, but in general have you encountered many posts that you consider personally offensive for one reason or another? Has it deterred you from visiting the Foro or contributing in any way?


Hi Ryan,

I have a "THICK SKIN" so I am not really bothered if a post is offensive. I usually ignore it...Sometimes my jaw drops when other members post offensive replies, but, again, I tend not to dwell on it.

As for being a female, I have NOT encountered any negative post toward woman dancer of female guitarist....

I laugh when guys remark about the hot babe flamenco dancer or female flamenco guitarist. It is normal and I do not find it offensive.

Whenever I have posted on the forum all my questions where answered respectfully and I have always found the forum VERY helpful!!!!

The reason why I have not posted as much is that my personal life has become hective! I still find time to play every day and I do check in the forum quite often...

It would be cool to see other female flamenco dancers and guitarists post, I am not really sure that the lack of woman on this forum has anything to do with offensive post or flamenco being a man's world when it comes to guitar....

However, it might help if there was a little less negativity on this forum! Would the foro have more traffic if all negativity stopped? I am not sure!!!!

Kalo



akatune -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:18:47)

If its ok to ban seriously contributing members like Jason Mcguire, then we surely won't miss those who contribute mostly fluff and inanity.



BarkellWH -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:21:16)

quote:

That is why I replied that I am female and you are correct, no one even stopped to acknowledge my reply!!! I even stated that I am still playing flamenco guitar as well...Maybe the guys on this forum want the flamenco dancer babes to chime in instead


C'mon Kalo, this is your second post on a thread entitled "Let's Have a Conversation about Women Participants and the Foro," and you have said nothing about your views or opinion on the subject. We know you are female, and I am happy you still play flamenco guitar, but what are your thoughts and opinions regarding women and the Foro? It is a bit disingenuous to suggest that, "Maybe the guys on this forum want the flamenco dancer babes to chime in instead," when you have offered no thoughts on the subject yourself. Are you waiting for an engraved invitation?

So let's cut to the chase. Of course we would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on women and the Foro. That's what this thread is about. What is your opinion about the Foro and women, and what has been expressed in this thread to date?

Cheers,

Bill



BarkellWH -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:25:45)

Kalo,

Thanks for your contribution. I posted my comment above before your post containing your thoughts and views appeared in this thread. That's the kind of contribution I think we are all looking for. You and Cristina have offered some insight. It would be nice if other women who are members of the Foro would offer their views as well.

Again, thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers,

Bill



Sr. Martins -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:27:49)

quote:

Would the foro have more traffic if all negativity stopped?


I believe so.

Then again, if the war subject isn't women, then it will be something else. Even if all the women who are active right now at the foro would state that they don't care about the jokes/attacks/etc, someone would come up with another excuse like "Oh, but that's not statistically relevant because we have few women here".

Had you said that you feel really sick and disgusted about something here, your statement would have been taken as the ultimate truth.


I guess we're all humans here so.. why bother? [8D]



estebanana -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:33:34)

quote:

Lastly, I'm reminded of an acoustic I owned years ago with a beautiful Claro Walnut back. I showed it to my wife and her best friend with no suggestive comments, and guess what the first comment out of their mouths was? I guess my wife and her friend are just not up to the standards of the gladiators of gentlemanly conduct here on the Foro?

__________________


Yes that is a good story, but context is everything. Obviously your wife and her friend feel safe and comfortable around you. Ask her if she would like to venture the same off the cuff remarks in a room full sexist talking guys she did not know.

To the Foro in general:


Everyone here represents themselves and people reading who are in the silent majority of non active posters know you by your remarks.

Since it is mainly guitar players here, I just want to say that I don't approve of or think it is funny or cute to sexualize guitars to the point where it would make someone uncomfortable. Just because you are not sensitive to it does not mean a passive reader thinks it is ok.


Something to think about.



estebanana -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:36:50)

quote:

If its ok to ban seriously contributing members like Jason Mcguire, then we surely won't miss those who contribute mostly fluff and inanity.


But down deep inside Jason is really very fluffy!



Sr. Martins -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:38:20)

quote:

in a room


This is the little thing that, for the third time, you don't seem to be aware of. The foro is at max a CHAT room, virtual, internet based.. this isn't real life nor should you try to make it so.



estebanana -> [Deleted] (Aug. 6 2014 16:45:23)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 6 2014 22:47:01



Sr. Martins -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:50:42)

Hmm..

Do you really know what sexist means?


Maybe you were raised with a very uptight education, I don't know your past but I've respected your point of view. There's little need for that kind of attitude.


Grab a beer, chillax [:D]



estebanana -> [Deleted] (Aug. 6 2014 16:53:21)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 6 2014 21:39:42



estebanana -> [Deleted] (Aug. 6 2014 16:54:45)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 6 2014 17:03:09
Reason for deletion: Unhelpful



Sr. Martins -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 16:56:10)

Thanks!



estebanana -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 17:00:55)

Hey you just said this was not real so **** you.

Does it seem more real to you now ?

You guys who think just because you're on line it's not real are complete idiots.



Escribano -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 17:02:35)

Stephen, you have been provoking this discussion based on your own anecdotal evidence that it is putting off women and now you resort to cussing out those that disagree with you. So what is the point of a discussion?



Sr. Martins -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 17:04:53)

You're acting like a child but it's still as real as it was to me.

FWIW, I didn't say it isn't real, I just stated the difference between people sharing the same space and people writing on the internet.



Mark2 -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 18:02:49)

Miguel,
I don't know any Alaskan girls crabbing, but there was a female on one of those Alaskan fishing shows, but you are correct in that is likely a rare thing.
I do think it's funny that on a forum dominated by flamenco guitarists people are lamenting the lack of women, when the flamenco dance world, particularly students of all levels, is dominated by women. where are the women? they are dancing! Go to class and you will be surrounded by them.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 18:10:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

Stephen, you have been provoking this discussion based on your own anecdotal evidence that it is putting off women and now you resort to cussing out those that disagree with you. So what is the point of a discussion?


Stephen got over-emotional and lost it, but it is Sr. Martins who is doing the provoking, and I would say intentionally. He voiced his disagreement, "cast his vote", early on--the rest are nothing more than one-liner barbs. I only point this out because I consider it an example of the type of caustic behavior that led to Stephen posting, and that has been a recurring problem on the foro.



Escribano -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 18:19:10)

I concur and Sr. Martins should recall that he has used one word replies involving women's genitalia in the past. I have deleted enough of them. His posts will now need my approval for a while.

I want the same respectful behaviour online as in real life, so we disagree on that as well.



ralexander -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 18:38:17)

quote:

Yes that is a good story, but context is everything. Obviously your wife and her friend feel safe and comfortable around you. Ask her if she would like to venture the same off the cuff remarks in a room full sexist talking guys she did not know.


Yep, fair point. I guess my point was that if I had said "hey, what does this look like winkwinknudgenudge", either way they were already thinking it without any coaxing from me. I think the same could likely be said about (m)any women that didn't know me, although I concede that their reaction to me pointing it out would differ depending on how they perceived me or the vibe of the particular situation. So then is it wrong for someone to say what everyone is (in theory) already thinking? Maybe so depending on your sensibilities. Human beings are sexual creatures by nature, and I can't say I agree that we should endeavor to protect women from what we think they shouldn't or don't want to hear. At any rate, women are clearly not the only people getting offended by this kind of talk around here, so use your REPORT ABUSE buttons people and let the great and powerful OZ make the call. If that doesn't work, move on to the next thread or better yet, back away from the computer and do something constructive. Being rude and hateful is certainly no better of a contribution.



Escribano -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 18:45:13)

I had a wild night in Halifax many years ago, on payday which I think was a Thursday. Only place I have been in Canada [:D] Ended up on the roof terrace of a bar somewhere downtown.



Grisha -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 18:45:47)

It would be nice if we had more women on this forum. It would mean that there are some that are interested in flamenco guitar (because this is what this forum has been primarily so far).

However, for me personally flamenco artists (and any artists) have no gender. It is the same with this forum's participants. I was never aware of who was who on this forum. Not only gender, but also names, age and locations (for the rare exceptions). We share information and experiences and that's all that matters.

If you want to attract more women, perhaps starting a dance section would be nice. With pictures, videos, ads, etc. This could include dance accompaniment subsection, from which many here could learn. Just a thought.



Ruphus -> RE: Let's have a conversation about Women participants and and the Foro (Aug. 6 2014 18:45:59)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria


Stephen got over-emotional and lost it, but it is Sr. Martins who is doing the provoking, and I would say intentionally. He voiced his disagreement, "cast his vote", early on--the rest are nothing more than one-liner barbs. I only point this out because I consider it an example of the type of caustic behavior that led to Stephen posting, and that has been a recurring problem on the foro.


You sound as if Stephem could be behaving himself, Miguel.
However, he has a weird understanding of both discussion style and females, expecting women to be drawn away by sexual terms, but not by his own inability to discuss neglected themes coherently and without ressorting to titling people as ****s who be ****ed here and ****ed there.

He who can´t keep up a string of coherency for more than two aspects, and who is unparalled on the foro for intended insults and obscene cursing, is now unaskedly applying for galantry in defence of the weak gender.

Quite an oblique case of hypocrisy if you ask me.

I agree on critisizm against genital talk, but do not think that it needs out of all Stephen´s pointing to vulgar or superficial postings.

Ruphus



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