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RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling)   You are logged in as Guest
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Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to XXX

quote:

Diaz does not edit the sound on his videos, it is even a f* camera mic he is using. Its not "pro" sound, its camera mic sound. It sounds good, because Diaz can play and the guitar is not bad, but its camera mic sound.


So why do all the 30 different andalusian guitars Diaz plays all sound the same, just the sound of the one rumbaking uses sounds like shiat? Ah yes...I forgot.. Diaz always plays with the original in the background. Mysterious ... anyway. Who cares. Me definitely not.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2011 18:51:28
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin
So why do all the 30 different andalusian guitars Diaz plays all sound the same, just the sound of the one rumbaking uses sounds like shiat?


Because the guitars Diaz plays have been touched by Paco, who gave them sweet timbre and sonoric colors. Didnt you know that?
Jokes aside, there are vids where Ruben demos his different guitars completely without backing and judging from that i think Rumba's guitar sounds just like an Andalusian too.
And lets not misunderstand about this point: if he was going to edit his sound heavily, he would never choose camera mic to pick up the audio.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2011 19:12:50
 
estebanana

Posts: 8555
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest

quote:

2) I am not Jason Mcquire or Ricardo so please do not criticize my playing too badly ...I play for fun and the occasional gig. I usually play with a metronome to help me keep time but I didn't want to muddy the sound of the guitars


For several months now I have been musing over your screen name and wondering how in the heck you settled on it. It's odd the way words work or the way we see signs, I was reading your name as Rum-Baking for months and finally today I realized you probably meant Rumba King.

So I kept mulling this over in my mind, how I was finally going to ask you how you arrived at Rum Baking. I thought perhaps you are a baker and you specialize in some secret recipe for a rum cake.

Anyway, mystery, I think, solved.

Your playing seems fine to me and I would only say one thing that you need to bring more into focus, or be more sensitive to, that would be dynamics.

A lot of your playing is monotone, well almost all of it. If you played in such a way that you actually were really, really over determined to make great differences between passages dynamically lots of things in your playing would com together.

Even Jason, who I know very well, would say that. I discuss technical musical stuff with him all the time as a way of understanding guitar making and what guitarists need.

One thing you could try is to move your hand up and down the distance between the bridge and end of the finger board and experiment with playing softer and harder in different places. Just take one or two phrases, like twenty or so seconds of music and just turn it inside out dynamically. Play it slow and only focus on how loud a soft different parts of the phrase are. In part where you think it should be soft play it loud and then right after that lower the intensity so you play next group of notes really soft. Try to create huge contrasts between intense and soft.

Once you get a feel for the chasm between hard driving and ultra soft laying back then look for the middle ground feelings which is where you should basically live as a guitarist. You're living in the medium to hard driving zone of the envelope of sound and that's cool, but for that to have meaning it needs to be contrasted by it's opposite.

Your hands look pretty good and your sound is good, but by paying attention to only your dynamics for a while, few week maybe, it will soften your right hand and make it even more supple. When that happens you really begin to find your true voice on the guitar. The guitar itself can't live in that over driven place and I hear hints of the guitar wanting to be left more alone so it can talk. It's like driving the guitar is you being willful about making it talk, when the guitar will do a lot of talking for you if you learn to let it do it's thing. You can think of it as a call and response dialog with the guitar.

Drive a phrase hard, then play the same phrase and try to do it softer so the guitar talks on it's own. Then arrive at some mutual agreement between the two of you.

Hope you don't mind my observation.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2011 20:14:23
 
rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

For several months now I have been musing over your screen name and wondering how in the heck you settled on it. It's odd the way words work or the way we see signs, I was reading your name as Rum-Baking for months and finally today I realized you probably meant Rumba King.


Hey that's funny, I always read it the same way. It's Rumba king... ahhhhh...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2011 21:30:14
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 2976
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

It's odd the way words work or the way we see signs, I was reading your name as Rum-Baking for months and finally today I realized you probably meant Rumba King.


god me too!!! lol

So I'm not the only crazy one out there.

I thought the AG sounded OK next to the yammie and you are right it is "just a guitar". Not a huge difference there as far as I can tell.. I'd put them both in the same category.
But I made a video a while back comparing a Blanca and a Negra made by me and the sound was virtually indistinguishable with the camera I used. But they sounded quite a bit different in person.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2011 21:35:54
 
Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

Perhaps it's just my nature to be non-confrontational, but I think that part of the reason Ruben's guitars sound decent, and Rumba King's guitars sound decent is because guitar and flamenco music are beautiful to us. In this case it is a question of decent, good or great sound.

My issue is that Ruben always made it seem like these guitars are incredible, better than guitars that are worth much more, that they are some secret treasure that only a few people know about etc...and this is what rubs me the wrong way. Most of the people here who started this discussion about Andalusian guitars are people who are looking for a decent guitar, so I assume that they recognize that the guitars are not the same quality as a Reyes or what have you.

In answer to Mezzo, I think if Rumba King had a luthier made or other more high end guitar, he would see his Andalusian guitar differently no? It's only natural, and for this reason I hope Rumba King and knock on wood of course that you get your Sanchis guitar!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2011 21:40:14
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Harry

quote:

In answer to Mezzo, I think if Rumba King had a luthier made or other more high end guitar, he would see his Andalusian guitar differently no?

well i just mention that for a more complete test. Nothing more.

quote:

Rum-Baking

It also could be Romb-Hacking... los rumberos!

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2011 22:43:12
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to estebanana

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2011 1:28:02
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Harry

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2011 1:34:16
 
Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest

The question is, will you make a recording if you get the guitar!

Knock on wood of course!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2011 1:49:04
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2011 2:11:53
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2011 20:59:51
 
estebanana

Posts: 8555
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

Why has this thread stalled? This was my source of entertainment the last two weeks.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2011 2:07:41
 
bursche

Posts: 1181
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to estebanana

You surely can revive it with some new myths about andelusional guitars

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2011 23:44:36
 
CuerdasDulces

Posts: 277
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Toronto

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to estebanana



  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 0:44:56
 
bursche

Posts: 1181
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to CuerdasDulces

I enjoyed that soo much!

The "What am I supposed to do with the humidifier?" part was by far the best.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 1:33:43
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin


b&w rosette is hardcore.

The reverbed sound does not do justice to real purpose of the recording - to demonstrate the studio quality sound of Andelusionals. Soundport also covers the natural sound of the guitar quite well. If guitar sounds good, I see no reason to make craters like these into poor guitar's bodies..

final question, hope it's not a mystery again - how much for this one?
(I like the fingerboard, tuners and case)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 2:03:02
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

This is great, when he is carrying his guitar down the street and it falls out the hole he sliced through the case onto the sidewalk he can look back at this video and see where he went wrong.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 2:29:12
 
Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

The fact that it comes in a gig bag does not bode well...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 3:13:13
 
estebanana

Posts: 8555
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

I'm holding my hands in the air! I did nothing wrong, I just wanted to do some simple benign trolling and talk about language pet peeves.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 3:58:44
 
Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.


b&w rosette is hardcore.

The reverbed sound does not do justice to real purpose of the recording - to demonstrate the studio quality sound of Andelusionals. Soundport also covers the natural sound of the guitar quite well. If guitar sounds good, I see no reason to make craters like these into poor guitar's bodies..

final question, hope it's not a mystery again - how much for this one?
from 10 points I would rate up to 2. (I like the fingerboard, tuners and case)


What's up with the continuing snide comments about these guitars? I also don't understand the 2 rating - shouldn't you actually see one in person and hear how it sounds before you rate it?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 5:38:28
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo

I don't think it would be necessary, this video gives quite a good idea about it.
If someone gave this guitar to me for free, I would probably go out and find a homeless musician...
No, seriously now. I'm sorry for these sarcastic comments, but the nature of their propagation and marketing somehow raise these reactions automatically.
You're the guy that sent the box to happy video-maker? But I guess you are right with the rating part, I will remove it, just to be politically correct..

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 10:45:52
 
Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to CuerdasDulces

My bet is that this video was staged and was not an actual unboxing by a new customer. Who would have a head cam waiting and ready? Maybe someone who makes lots of guitar videos already? Who would open a new guitar and hold it that long for the camera and then look at the CDs etc without playing a note or touching the strings. Who would open a brand new guitar like that and then put it away without touching a string? Oh, and when you try to go to the channel of the poster, it is unavailable. They probably watched that video of the Devoe unboxing and thought the same thing would be good marketing for their guitars. Hopefully I am wrong.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 10:53:47
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo

quote:

What's up with the continuing snide comments about these guitars? I also don't understand the 2 rating - shouldn't you actually see one in person and hear how it sounds before you rate it?


What's up with your incessant need to defend this company? In case you missed my comment, I'VE heard one in person several times - it was very mediocre. I was trying not to be so brutal in my previous comment, but we can go there. My teacher is a great player so he can get some OK sounds out of it, but he sounded x10 better on my $1000 Sigurdson before I sold it. For what it's worth, he wants another guitar but as a working musician money is tight. He's ordered something through our local music store so he can finance it.

The AG marketing is BS and the origins are suspect, which turns off a lot of people (for good reason IMO) - especially when there are so many honest, hardworking solo luthiers trying to make a living. It's great that you've met Ruben and you think he's nice and all that, but he has been polluting the online flamenco community for years and has made a lot of enemies with his ****ty attitude. What we're left with is the comments you'll find here and on several other forums.

I suggest you get a bit more experience before coming on here with this attitude. You should also make a point to go play some of these guitars and report back with your experiences. Maybe you'll buy one and that's fine, but other people are perfectly welcome to not even entertain the idea whether based on experience or principle.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 12:43:48
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

very well said. But hey, comparing AG even for illustrational purposes with Sigurdson guitars. Hmm, I don't think so..

When watching closely on the shape of the body and specifically, the width of body is what attracts my attention. I've seen a luthier that makes so thick flamenco and classical guitars, Hugo Chiliquinga, but his instruments sound very decent. But maybe AG come from the area of Equador, or Paraguay, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Peru etc. or somewhere, where it is reasonably cheap for Ruben to order and resale. And still, could be they are from China, really would be nice if someone could tell and support it with undeniable evidence for it...

Anyone in Ireland having this guitar and would allow me to take a look I would gladly try it. But not that I would presume it could somehow surprise me anyway..
very, very, veryvery unlikely.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 15:06:25
 
GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.
I like the fingerboard, tuners and case

The tuning machines are Chinese-made "Der Jung" models. The pics below are from La Sonanta and eBay.

You can purchase them through seller "taisamlu" on eBay. I've bought a a couple for $18 each last year (Best Offer, shipping included). They're not the best though and I wouldn't compare them to Gotohs at all. I threw one set away after disassembling it for parts. I think there was a problem with the gear shafts.

Some of his cheaper tuning machines from Der Jung perform better with no tightness or stickiness. The model in auction 380321572749 has been the most trouble-free for me. I've installed three with no problems.

The eBay seller will substitute different buttons if you prefer.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 16:31:37
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

Agree. I may eventually get some of these or few similar and I was going to some time ago, but I ended up beign not quite sure which ones I would really want.

Patina and old look also is attractive, but then silver, or gold shining is also not bad looking. I think I will equip my newest vintage guitar with patina ones

Especially these black ebony buttons with holes in them are marvellous. Really good design. At the moment I have well working chinese machines on both main guitars that I own. No problem so far, but yet I'd like to try some better ones. So you think these are good replacement but still can't be compared to Fustero, or Gotoh and likes? the problem you had with scrolling mechanism is familiar to me as well. The chepest machines sometimes, or maybe pretty predictably tend to wear off because of cheap and rust intolerant lowergrade metal. First I couldn't believe what I saw when examining what was the problem there and found out the scrolling was entirely gone...

I specially like these, but they are a bit more expensive



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 19:39:46
 
GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.
So you think these are good replacement but still can't be compared to Fustero, or Gotoh and likes? the problem you had with scrolling mechanism is familiar to me as well. The chepest machines sometimes, or maybe pretty predictably tend to wear off because of cheap and rust intolerant lowergrade metal.

I haven't yet installed a set of Fusteros but I'm really pleased with the sub-$100 Gotohs and Rubners.

I really like the Lyra-style Gotohs for about $60. The buttons are plastic but there's absolutely no flash and they don't feel or look cheap. You can order them from specialist importers with ebony buttons. The wood screws are also large-headed (compared to screws of several other tuning machines that I have installed).



Sadly, the US distributor of Rubner is now only offering more expensive tuning machines. They used to offer a simple $40 set (which sells for $15 in Europe).

It's hard for me to clearly diagnose where the problems are with these Der Jung tuning machines. On one set, I thought it might be the cheap plastic washers. On another set, I thought it was a crooked gear shaft. In any case, the quality isn't very consistent but I've had more acceptable ones than bad ones. At just $18 each, I don't mind having had to chuck two of them. After all, they look good enough ... to be on a guitar that is claimed to sound as great as a $15,000 guitar.


Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 20:03:10
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

some of these prices here are pretty reasonable:

http://www.madinter.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_productos.php&tbusq=1&ref=ref-50&md=1

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 20:14:59
 
estebanana

Posts: 8555
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin

For the money compared to the $150.00 tuners the $70.00 Gotohs without the lyre are my favorite flamenco guitar tuners.

The reason is because I've weighed several sets and they are the lightest and structurally they're quite robust. The plates are not fancy, just a brushed finish with light engraving and the buttons do not have the pip on the end. They just look better on flamenco guitars with out the pomp of the pips and fancy grips. And there is not much difference in structure over the 150.00 tuners. Except the more expensive tuners are heavier.

To me the next step up to something significantly better begins at 250.00 to 300.00. I think the Gotohs are quite good for the money and replacement parts are available if you ever need them. Just my two cents on tuners, either get under a hundred dollar tuners or over 250.00 the stuff in the middle price range is just about the same as the under 100.00 stuff. Just saying.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2011 20:15:11
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