Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments

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Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments

Just imagine, you make a small break during a classical piece.
Or even worse, make a mistake.
Isn't that considered very bad in classical music?

Now watch Paco here

Maybe i am crazy, but I LOVE these Paco moments (and similar moments from others during flamenco performances)

This adds more excitement to the piece (for me).

He missed the right moment to start the falseta at 9.49

Of course he just keeps driving with compas and starts next time at 9.56.

So ****ing COOL.

Feel free to post other lovely moments

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 12:17:44

rombsix

Posts: 7816
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

Frankly, what is awesome is how he handled it with a great smile.

It's music eventually, it's not like someone is going to die because he had a slight lapse of memory, right?

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 12:34:59

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

Frankly, what is awesome is how he handled it with a great smile. It's music eventually, it's not like someone is going to die because he had a slight lapse of memory, right?

yeah.

of course, someone else could get panic and stop playing compas too

but flamenco always gives you a second (and even third

) chance to correct your mistake, without sounding shi!t and without ruining anything. - simply through compas

and best part is: 99% of people don't even notice such things in a performance

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 12:40:38

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

Pah, I can play a whole piece like that

We all drop the ball every now and again; unfortunately I dropped the bowl last night and ended up mopping up all the kitchen and knock up something else for dinner

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 12:41:14

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

that was amazing

it's really unbelievable to me how he can control the compas and handle this kind of mistakes with such a nice smile
thanx for posting and ole paco

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 12:52:57

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

sign of a true pro - I love these moments, too - it reminds us that guys like Paco are still human

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 13:27:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

quote:

Maybe i am crazy, but I LOVE these Paco moments

Same happened at 6:30 so I would say he was distracted during this show. He plays with a lot of feeling in other places so it is good overall, but once you make a mistake it can really throw off your night. I like that it shows he is human, but I can't help but feel a little embarrassed for him, as if it was ME up there in the chair in front of a knowledgeable audience. Imagine knowing that your every move in your life is being watched by 1000 hawks analyzing your every mistake and posting it on youtube for all the world to see. That is what has happened to Paco on this tour.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 13:40:26

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Maybe i am crazy, but I LOVE these Paco moments

Same happened at 6:30 so I would say he was distracted during this show. He plays with a lot of feeling in other places so it is good overall, but once you make a mistake it can really throw off your night. I like that it shows he is human, but I can't help but feel a little embarrassed for him, as if it was ME up there in the chair in front of a knowledgeable audience. Imagine knowing that your every move in your life is being watched by 1000 hawks analyzing your every mistake and posting it on youtube for all the world to see. That is what has happened to Paco on this tour.

hmm, i didn't look at it from this (Paco's) perspective.
you are probably right.

now i feel a little guilty to have focused on such details and be one of those "hawks".
but my intention was only positive.
not even to show that he is human.
just to show how cool he is and how he handles these issues.

not like "look, even paco makes mistakes".
(those were not even real "mistakes")

so, i hope that paco doesn't watch youtube and read forums

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 13:56:51

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Imagine knowing that your every move in your life is being watched by 1000 hawks analyzing your every mistake and posting it on youtube for all the world to see. That is what has happened to Paco on this tour.

You mean people upload his stuff because they show the world his mistakes???

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:01:16

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Imagine knowing that your every move in your life is being watched by 1000 hawks analyzing your every mistake and posting it on youtube for all the world to see. That is what has happened to Paco on this tour.

You mean people upload his stuff because they show the world his mistakes???

no i think what Ricardo meant was only what PACO feels and thinks.
and the pressure on him.
not what people do or think.

i mean those "hawks" go to his concert or watch his videos because they love him and his music. why should they post something with negative intention? or be after Paco?
that wouldn't make sence.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:10:02

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

of course we have those "haters", but you could probably count them with your fingers + they are mostly too stupid to find a mistake in any piece anyway

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:16:42

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

so all in all, i am not sure anymore if its ok to post such posts or keep it for myself , out of respect for Paco, Gerardo or anyone else who we all admire.

even if my intention is 100% positive.

but we should also consider the feelings of the Maestros

what is your opinion Ricardo , and everyone else?

i am really unsure now

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:19:37

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash
i am really unsure now

relax man!! Paco is paco. He knows that all his concerts are going to be uploaded. What tha hell? The video says "Paco de Lucia 2010", it is not offending anybody.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:24:48

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash
i am really unsure now

relax man!! Paco is paco. He knows that all his concerts are going to be uploaded. What tha hell? The video says "Paco de Lucia 2010", it is not offending anybody.

i know. but i used that vid and focused on a specific part.
but i don't want to be a starter of a "Paco's mistakes" discussion.
somehow i feel uncomfortable now. don't know

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:28:42

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to XXX)

I actually saw him at the Beacon theater in 2002 and he completely stopped for about 5 or 6 seconds playing this same bulerias which is quite alot. He is still Paco so most people probably didn't even notice it anyway.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:30:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

Yeah my point is lets say this vid was not a cel phone camera but a pro multiangle shot. Now, even you don't consider them mistakes he is making, well HE knows what happened as do we "nerds" of flamenco guitar. lets say PDL's management says "look we are going to make a DVD of this performance to sell." How do think he would feel about it?
Don't you think he would not be happy having his less then perfect version commercially available? You can find other versions of this same arrangement on youtuve with no or less mistakes.

My point is it is totally out of his hands what gets put up on youtube. Imagine if YOUR life was the same way...not just guitar playing since nobody on here is playing as many concerts as paco last year. But what you do, either good or bad, what YOU do is put out there for all to see on a weekly basis.

As you can see some months ago folks on the foro were saying "paco is over, not like the old days" etc. Thanks to vids like these. On another occasion some people were raving about "paco's new music", and it was the same music, just a different night!

Don't feel bad arash, every artist has an obligation to swallow whatever critic of their performance or work once they find the guts to present it publicly. Some folks keep their art all to themselves because they are too afraid of exposure, given the chance they make mistakes.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:43:35

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

thanks for posting this arash.

these things happen and paco showed us a great way to handle it.

so not only can we learn from paco's perfect playing. we can learn from his imperfect playing as well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 14:52:28

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Ricardo)

yeah, i guess we sometimes forget that people like Paco and Gerarde are Human like we are - and i don't mean human to make mistakes - i mean human because they are not Robots with no emotions who don't care if they make mistakes,,,,,,,, if people have extremely high UNHUMAN expectations from them,,,,,,, if their mistakes are caught by cameras and spread through internet and posted on forums,,,,,,, if they see that people focus on their injury and see the difference,,,,,,,if ,,,,,,,etc......

i decided to not post anything similar anymore.
not because i don't have the right to, or because my intention was bad......but because i somehow feel , it could attract negative vibes and because i somehow feel to be part of the flamenco familly, in which we should take care of eachother

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 15:10:25

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

these things happen and paco showed us a great way to handle it.

OLE

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 15:14:53

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to jg7238)

Paco once said in an interview that it is a humongous mistake to judge a guitarrist performance by the accuracy in the notes being played rather than what he or she is trying to express through their fingers. After all, it ultimately comes down to the core of the being when playing, not being a MIDI file. That is one thing that Paco has over everybody else which is being able to create a bridge between the audience and himself when he is playing. To me that is a brilliant artist.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 15:32:15

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to jg7238)

quote:

That is one thing that Paco has over everybody else which is being able to create a bridge between the audience and himself when he is playing.

Really jg?

Only Paco..?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 15:37:31

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to jg7238)

quote:

Paco once said in an interview that it is a humongous mistake to judge a guitarrist performance by the accuracy in the notes being played rather than what he or she is trying to express through their fingers.

Yeah because HE is making tons of mistakes as we can see on youtube!

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 15:46:30

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron, I should have said over most other players, sorry. By the way Ricardo, I saw your version of "Frevo" and I was wondering if you have the tab or music to that. It looks like a fun piece to let off some steam.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 16:01:26

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

That is one thing that Paco has over everybody else which is being able to create a bridge between the audience and himself when he is playing.

Really jg?

Only Paco..?

cheers,

Ron

No Ron, not only Paco.
I made a new thread with Moraito, extra for you

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 16:07:16

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

quote:

I made a new thread with Moraito, extra for you

Good man, Arash!

(He's beginning to look old these days, especially with the haircut.)

Good video!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 16:21:58

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

I made a new thread with Moraito, extra for you

Good man, Arash!

(He's beginning to look old these days, especially with the haircut.)

Good video!

cheers,

Ron

in the video discription, its mentioned that he had health issues and couldn't play.
but now he is back.
hope that his issues are solved.

btw, dunno but imo he looks younger with the short hair !

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 16:33:53

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to jg7238)

That's OK jg...

(Mind you, if Paco had to spit on his shoes during a concert, the "Paco Nutters" would applaud rapturously and fight each other to crawl up on the stage to lick it off IMO...but that's more about hero worship than anything else)

BTW

quote:

create a bridge between the audience and himself

There was an actor talking on the radio this morning who said "Before an audience will like or believe the character you are playing, they must like YOU first."

Interesting....I thought about this awhile and reckoned it's true...

Live musicians always go down with the audience better when they create a rapport with their music and stage presence.
I think this is true for all kinds of musicians too, be it Flamenco, Folk, Rock, Ballads, Jazz etc.
Some of the (semi-pro) live shows I've seen, I haven't liked simply because the artist(s) has come across as being aloof or condecending etc...or failed to engage with the audience generally...even though the music itself was probably not bad. But the attitude just made me switch off.

It's maybe something worth thinking about for the semi-pro guys here...that doing a bit of work on stagecraft and audience handling can be just as important as playing flawlessly.

Just a thought.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 17:05:13

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

That is one thing that Paco has over everybody else which is being able to create a bridge between the audience and himself when he is playing.

That depends rather on the listeners taste than on the player... Well,.. excellent playing and being a "legend" in a the musical niche flamenco helps,..but if the listener isn´t interested in Flamenco but in pop.. Paco wouldn´t build any bridges, but lady Gaga would.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 17:11:13

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

Paco's bridges are made of duende - Lady Gaga's are made of sparkly raw meat

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 17:44:25

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Beauty of Flamenco - Lovely moments (in reply to Arash)

be careful with Lady Gaga. "She" also has some bridges to some Flamencos here.
Once i made a funny comment about LAdy Gaga and someone got upset in the foro

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2011 18:34:03