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fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

Arpeggio practice combinations 

Ever since the arpeggios are evil thread I have been spending a lot of time practicing arpeggios. I have been trying to practice as many different patterns as possible, and I have to say that I am extremely happy with my progress. I am actually a bit of a technique freak and have no problem sitting for hours practicing this stuff. The biggest improvement that I have seen doing this is that my right hand has become much more stable and solid, and that in turn has improved the sound quality of my playing as well movement.

Anyway, I have written out below what I am practicing working on now and wonder if anyone else has any other patterns that they might want to share. Oh and this has also helped my out my tremolo too!

PIMA
PIAM

PMIA
PMAI

PAMI
PAIM

PIMAMI

PIA
PAI

PMA
PAM

PI(MA) - play MA together
P(MA)I

P(IM)A
PA(IM)

Vic
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2010 20:33:17
 
rombsix

Posts: 7575
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

PAMI repeated twice there, mate. That P(IM)A and PA(IM) is a killer! Olé!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2010 21:15:01
 
fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

oops, you're right. I just fixed that Ramzi, thanks. Yeah, playing the (IM) and (AM) is a bit tricky. I just started practicing it because its part of an Alegria from JM that Im learning.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2010 21:23:59
 
Pawo

 

Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 15 2010
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

I'm too working a lot with arpeggios. I find the Giuliani 120 Right Hand Arpeggio Studies useful as arranged in 'Pumping Nylon' book. Although some of the patterns sound very 'classical' and maybe not useful for flamenco, I practice them all with thumb rest stroke and all in all find it a good workout.



Cheers

Dave
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2010 21:25:35
 
fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

quote:

I'm too working a lot with arpeggios. I find the Giuliani 120 Right Hand Arpeggio Studies useful as arranged in 'Pumping Nylon' book. Although some of the patterns sound very 'classical' and maybe not useful for flamenco, I practice them all with thumb rest stroke and all in all find it a good workout.


Can you give some examples? Is there anything different than what I have posted? Thanks!

Vic
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 16 2010 3:13:18
Guest

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Pawo

quote:

I practice them all with thumb rest stroke and all in all find it a good workout.

way to go
good to put different chords with the guiliani on the left hand
like Bb to A7b9...etc...gives it a flamenco flavour
also the Carlevaro exercises are great to work with...offers a syncopated bass unlike the guilianni
eg

amim {ie p and a together}
p

imam
p

then variations

mima
p p

can place rest stroke on p as well as a or any other combinations depending



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 16 2010 4:41:19
 
Pawo

 

Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 15 2010
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

Ok Vic here's a few

maim ipip (an example of a 'classical' sounding pattern with ip played on same string)

pia pim

pamami

(pi)ma

(pa)mi

(pm)ia

brackets means played together

I try to use thumb rest strokes and full plants as much as possible (apart from descending ami where I find sequential planting easier)...find it helps me develop finger independence.

You can imagine cos there are I20 patterns almost every conceivable permutation is covered.

I think it's best you take a look yourself...do a google search and and you will probably find a PDF version of the studies to download.

Guilianni just uses I - V (C to G) chords but as ALVal said in his post you can use different chord sequences as you please.


Thanks ALVal for posting that example of Carlevaro...this is new to me and looks interesting..... will definitely look at these studies

Cheers

Dave
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 16 2010 11:17:30
 
fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

Thanks AlVal and Dave. Ill give those a try and see how they work out. Lots of material now, that's what I wanted!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2010 20:04:51
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

Hello mate,
a good exercise is playing these like the following :
p-i-m ||| p-m-a ||| p-m-i ||| p-a-m
p-i-a ||| p-a-i they're not hard but fun.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2010 20:18:22
 
felipe

 

Posts: 39
Joined: Jul. 1 2010
From: Poland

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

Hi.

Some of my stuff:

1.

-----------0---0---0---------
-----0---0---0---0---0---0---
---0---0---------------0---0-
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
-0---------------------------
p i m i m a m a m a m i m i


2.

-----------0---------
-------0-------0-----
---0---------------0-
---------------------
---------------------
-0---0---0---0---0---
p i p m p a p m p i


3.

-----------------------0---0---0---------------------
-----------------0---0---0---0---0---0---------------
-----------0---0---0---------------0---0---0---------
-----0---0---0---------------------------0---0---0---
---0---0---------------------------------------0---0-
-0---------------------------------------------------
p i m i m a i m a i m a m a m a m i a m i a m i m i



4. A bit of sweep arpegios, but with fingers:

---------3-7-3-------
-------5-------5-----
-----4-----------4---
---5---------------5-
-7-------------------
---------------------
p i m a m i m a m i
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2010 14:39:33
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 969
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Elie

What M. Sanlucar is doing in this video at 1:50-2:05 caught my attention. Does anyone know which technique it is? Or is it a normal arpeggio pattern without ring finger involvement?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 19 2020 14:27:52
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12992
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

What M. Sanlucar is doing in this video at 1:50-2:05 caught my attention. Does anyone know which technique it is? Or is it a normal arpeggio pattern without ring finger involvement?




Mainly a sort of two melodic note per bass Note picado, where thumb is apoyando and fingers are tirando. I often use the famous Bach Borree in Em to demonstrate to experienced classical players entering the Flamenco universe, some of the technique differences. Borree also works nice for the opposite technique where fingers are apoyando and bass notes tirando. The character of the music changes drastically.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 19 2020 18:47:32
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 969
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Mainly a sort of two melodic note per bass Note picado, where thumb is apoyando and fingers are tirando. I often use the famous Bach Borree in Em to demonstrate to experienced classical players entering the Flamenco universe, some of the technique differences. Borree also works nice for the opposite technique where fingers are apoyando and bass notes tirando. The character of the music changes drastically.

Do you have video showing your Bach demonstration?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 21 2020 20:11:17
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12992
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

quote:

Mainly a sort of two melodic note per bass Note picado, where thumb is apoyando and fingers are tirando. I often use the famous Bach Borree in Em to demonstrate to experienced classical players entering the Flamenco universe, some of the technique differences. Borree also works nice for the opposite technique where fingers are apoyando and bass notes tirando. The character of the music changes drastically.

Do you have video showing your Bach demonstration?


No. I can make one of course. I’m looking forward to the disparaging comments and down thumbs for another blasphemous Bach interpretation. 😂😜

Honestly I was kind of surprised by comments I have received for my crazy Bach things.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 21 2020 20:37:56
 
TonyGonzales84

 

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to fevictor

Ricardo,

With all due respect to him (and I did like and admire his playing, and his taking on the challenge of that monstrous guitar), Narciso Yepes does not post here!

Tony

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 21 2020 21:09:03
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12992
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

quote:

Mainly a sort of two melodic note per bass Note picado, where thumb is apoyando and fingers are tirando. I often use the famous Bach Borree in Em to demonstrate to experienced classical players entering the Flamenco universe, some of the technique differences. Borree also works nice for the opposite technique where fingers are apoyando and bass notes tirando. The character of the music changes drastically.

Do you have video showing your Bach demonstration?




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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2020 5:02:27
 
chester

Posts: 830
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

quote:

Mainly a sort of two melodic note per bass Note picado, where thumb is apoyando and fingers are tirando. I often use the famous Bach Borree in Em to demonstrate to experienced classical players entering the Flamenco universe, some of the technique differences. Borree also works nice for the opposite technique where fingers are apoyando and bass notes tirando. The character of the music changes drastically.

Do you have video showing your Bach demonstration?





Sounds good dude!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2020 5:25:46
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 969
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Ricardo

A good comparison. Bach would prefer the flamenco version.
Looks like the way your i and m pluck the string in the 1st and 3rd version is the same. But both sound different. Or did you just pluck stronger in the 3rd version?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2020 13:38:22
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12992
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to devilhand

They are the same, however with the thumb resting you feel some resistance and a better grip on the strings, so the sound projects stronger.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2020 17:00:18
 
JasonM

Posts: 1695
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Honestly I was kind of surprised by comments I have received for my crazy Bach things


What? Where? I didn’t see any under the YouTube video. In any case, people need to wash the sand out of their crotches
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2020 20:36:34
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12992
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

quote:

Honestly I was kind of surprised by comments I have received for my crazy Bach things


What? Where? I didn’t see any under the YouTube video. In any case, people need to wash the sand out of their crotches


I meant “surprised they weren’t all bad”.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 26 2020 17:51:31
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 969
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Ricardo

Talking about Bach Borree in Em, I find this Bach Beethoven Mozart compilation hilarious.

https://youtu.be/mXjNATmIruI

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 28 2020 17:08:11
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 969
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to devilhand

The idea of studying and practicing all possible arpeggio patterns is crazy. There must be a few patterns that are used more frequently than the rest. So I ask you guys what are the most frequently used arpegio patterns in traditional flamenco? Thanks for the input.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2021 19:16:49
 
Mark2

Posts: 1643
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to devilhand

PIMA
PAMI
PIMAMI

I think these are the most common, but VA does some crazy ones, as do many other players.

I'm studying PMI these days and realized I am pretty weak at it. Working on some Pepe Habichuela solea falsetas that need it. I'm doing planting exercises to reduce movement and increase speed, power, and accuracy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2021 21:43:00
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12992
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Mark2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

PIMA
PAMI
PIMAMI

I think these are the most common, but VA does some crazy ones, as do many other players.



Those three are the essential ones, plus amiamiami repeating over top of simultaneous bass notes. Tomatito demos a falseta that teaches that on his Encuentro video. An important one to add is the horquilla hair pin arpegio that is p am i repeating. Niño ricardo used that one a lot.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2021 14:04:14
 
kitarist

Posts: 1283
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

PIMA
PAMI
PIMAMI

I think these are the most common, but VA does some crazy ones, as do many other players.



Those three are the essential ones, plus amiamiami repeating over top of simultaneous bass notes. Tomatito demos a falseta that teaches that on his Encuentro video. An important one to add is the horquilla hair pin arpegio that is p am i repeating. Niño ricardo used that one a lot.


One other horquilla arpeggio - p m i - also seems to occur frequently so I'd add it to the list as well; or is there an argument why it shouldn't be on it? EDIT: Mark2 already mentioned it above.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2021 19:39:11
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 969
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Mark2

quote:

I'm studying PMI these days and realized I am pretty weak at it. Working on some Pepe Habichuela solea falsetas that need it.

Do you mean this pmi at 2:09-2:15? This pmi pattern already caught my attention. In another thread I even asked which Habichuela it was.
Do you play pmi only on 3 treble strings as shown in this video or it can be used on any strings?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 25 2021 16:54:09
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 969
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

amiamiami repeating over top of simultaneous bass notes. Tomatito demos a falseta that teaches that on his Encuentro video.

Thanks for this hint. I'll take a look at it.

quote:

An important one to add is the horquilla hair pin arpegio that is p am i repeating.

Any youtube videos showing that p am i pattern?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 25 2021 17:01:51
 
Piwin

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RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to devilhand

quote:

Any youtube videos showing that p am i pattern?




around 0:20



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 25 2021 17:43:39
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 969
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Arpeggio practice combinations (in reply to Piwin

Thanks Piwin. I really have to master this too. I'm concerned my arpeggio is getting superior to other techniques. I hope it will have a positive effect on my tremolo. What I noticed was my tremolo gets smoother and faster right after my picado practice. I guess it's because of I and M that are exposed to alternating fast runs.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 26 2021 15:17:30
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