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Thumb click/picado question (updated with video)   You are logged in as Guest
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HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

Thumb click/picado question (updated... 

Hey there guys, quick questions. The thumb click sound, anyone has that sound when doing picado? sometimes I have that.. should i have it? if I file my i/m nails shorter, it'll go away. Should i strive NOT to have the click during picado? or is it ok?

cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 9 2010 23:03:13
 
por medio

 

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009
 

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

Well the amount of "click" is a personal preference. I went through this too.

You will get more click if there's more distance between the point where the flesh meets the string and the nail itself - i.e. the string hits the flesh, and as you carry through, it (the string) hits the nail. Greater the distance between those two, more click.

Well it was the case for me!

I thought my picado sound wasn't too bad until I recorded myself. It was pretty shocking and far from the tone that I aspired to have.

The solution for me was to make the first contact with the string right where the nail meets the flesh, practically under the nail. I believe that this is generally the advice given by most picado experts also. If you change where you make the first contact you may have to change your technique and nail length also.

Good luck!

Francis
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2010 6:37:33
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

The thumb click sound, anyone has that sound when doing picado


thumb click sound??? whats that? I use i and m so how would my thumb be causing a click??

so i guess my answer is no.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2010 11:07:00
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

what is " The thumb click sound " ?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2010 15:44:47
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

Todd has a thread that better explains what is the thumb click sound is..
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=118735&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1

What I'm refering to is the same click sound during picado.
I don't have any click sound with my thumb at all. But varying the nail length of my I/M, I'll have various degrees of the click.. was wondering whether I should strive NOT to have that.

cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2010 17:45:02

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

As someone just explained in this thread, the "click" sound, (wether its I, M, or thumb) comes from distance between the planting point of the finger on the string, and the actual nail.

The string skids across the flesh, then smacks into the nail, causing a clicking sound.

If you plant your finger (or thumb) on the string very close to the nail, so there is very little distance between flesh and nail, you will get little to no smack, or click.

I always believed that Paco plants very deeply with I M picado, and he has a rather
bright picado sound. I believe this explains why he likes use vaseline on his fingers in concert.
If he planted really close to the nail, he probably wouldnt need or use vaseline.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2010 23:07:31
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to ToddK

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

As someone just explained in this thread, the "click" sound, (wether its I, M, or thumb) comes from distance between the planting point of the finger on the string, and the actual nail.


Hi there Todd, I think you misunderstood my question.
I put the link to "what is the thumb click sound' for people who do not know what it is.
My question is whether I should have that click when I play picado or not.


cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2010 6:19:18
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

My question is whether I should have that click when I play picado or not.


Hey Holy,

Guitarists like Jose luis monton for example seem to play with more click than others. The most important thing is for you to decide how you would like your music to sound.

The click comes in handy when it acts as a guide for your ear and helps with the awareness of the pulsation in your fingers. If the clicking sound is played evenly and rhythmically it will sound good. If not it will sound annoying.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2010 8:02:08
 
por medio

 

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RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to KMMI77

Ah Jose Luis Monton has DOES indeed have clicks! I was trying to see who has them.

I must admit, the vast majority of the pros don't seem to have it - or if they do it's minimal. I'm not a fan for it - although I LOVE Jose Luis' music.

Maybe you should upload what you sound like Holy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2010 8:14:45
 
michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

i don't practice picado, so it lacks precision, but sometimes when i have too much energy to spend or a musical idea that motivates me to put a lot of energy in the picado i play with (too) much flesh and a exaggereted stroke, so i and m are touching the golpeador when i play treble strings. this also produces a kind of click that reminds me the rough tone of the late nino miguel, doesn't Nino Miguel have that kind of click you are talking about guys?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2010 10:39:50
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

doesn't Nino Miguel have that kind of click you are talking about guys?


I guess everyone who has nails has some kind of click. The type of guitar people play would also be a factor. Even styles like Caño roto seem to have a distinctive click.

I think it is the overall control and execution of technique that makes it sound good or bad. I think good players have a sound or a click that is uniform. It's a hard question to answer, exactly how much is best?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2010 11:10:12
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

should i have it?


HolyEvil,
learn to play with and without click.

Whenever a piece asks for some kinda expression, you can choose between the two.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2010 11:20:02
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

First, the click occurs more often/ more easily on the trebles. Second i think most players have it, or like it. Counter examples are very rare, Tomatito would come to my mind but he uses his thumb mainly on the basses.
You can play around with the degree and angle of attack to get the sound you want.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2010 15:43:24
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

here is the video as asked.. so is the click a problem?

thanks guys.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2010 3:00:49
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to kozz

quote:

ORIGINAL: kozz

quote:

should i have it?


HolyEvil,
learn to play with and without click.

Whenever a piece asks for some kinda expression, you can choose between the two.


it's impossible tho..
unlike the thumb where I can vary the angle of attack..
for picado, i try to hit it right in the middle of the finger and the click would be worse if i angle it because i have a flat finger nail and not an angled fingernail like the thumb..
check out the video I just uploaded and gimme some comment mate?

cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2010 3:03:53
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Thumb click/picado question (in reply to HolyEvil

Hi H.E.,
I'll make a small video when the sun comes up over here, and I'm a little bit more awake and try to explain how I do it.

Here's one about the nails:

(The picado will be later, first the medication has to kick in before I can take the guitar )

The first thing what I notice, is that you should push the strings towards the soundboard instead of plucking it. (Is your guitar teacher, playing the Anders 2A guitar, a classical teacher from origin? )

About the nails, that a way of finding out yourselves what suites best. I've noticed that for me filing the nails all in a different angle works best. So when al of your fingers are on a string, the nails "should" be alligned. But that all depends on the angle of your own position.
I like it that way so the nails won't stick playing tremelo, but worked out pretty well as a base for all other techniques also.

The main thing is pushing the strings to the soundboard, try that first. (Maybe try a lower angle with your fist, the angle is imo to high, or you must have great strength in your fingers).




quote:

here is the video as asked.. so is the click a problem?

The click is no problem, the sound is thin, but can be easily improved by pushing the strings towards the soundboard.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2010 4:54:04
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Thumb click/picado question (upd... (in reply to HolyEvil

hey koz.
about playing towards the soundboard.. if string to string is parallel to the soundboard. I would say I'm playing about maybe 20 degree towards the soundboard. hard to say because it's not exact.. i don't try to pluck the strings ala arppegios tho.
I'll try to get a more punchy tone from now =)

cheers for your reply...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2010 7:09:52
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Thumb click/picado question (upd... (in reply to HolyEvil

oh.. what do you mean by.. 'lower angle with your fist"
i don't understand..

cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2010 7:14:52
 
kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Thumb click/picado question (upd... (in reply to HolyEvil

quote:

oh.. what do you mean by.. 'lower angle with your fist"
i don't understand..

cheers


You probably are checking the mini-picado challenge also...and a lot of info in the search.
What I ment with lowering the angle of your wrist, is that it should be more straight imo, so it takes less force to push the strings towards the soundboard.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 17 2010 13:34:50
 
por medio

 

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RE: Thumb click/picado question (upd... (in reply to kozz

From the audio the click doesn't sound that bad at all imo.

And what kozz is saying is true. Try to have the angle of the wrist a bit straighter. You're probably resting the forearm on the body of the guitar too much - bring the elbow up.

In saying that I have seen someone playing pretty mean picados in your position too. But for majority the angle of your wrist would be too much.

And yes you could definitely push into the soundboard a bit more.

Have a look at http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=147937&p=1&mpage=1&tmode=1&smode=1 and look at grisha's videos on picados that Ron M posted - the tips he gives in those are pretty universal and very true. They helped me out a great deal.

But all it all I think you're sounding pretty good!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2010 9:06:18
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