kitarist -> RE: Can a white man play the blues? (May 28 2021 23:08:20)
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ORIGINAL: kitarist quote:
^ Álvarez Caballero (1981: 134) cita una tonadilla de 1830 en que se encontraría la primera atestación de 'flamenco' como sinónimo de gitano y su lenguaje. I can't find the source for this [] Found it! However, this opened a couple of questions that I'd like help with from those of you with good command of Spanish (doesn't matter if native speaker or not): 1. What is the actual year when this scenic tonadilla was created - 1807 or 1830? (Or, are there two different piezas by the same name or is it the same piece?) 2. Is its use of 'flamenco' indeed novel, non-Flemish-related, use of the word, or not? First, let's go over what Alvarez Caballero is referring to and when did this piece get created: Alvarez, quoting Larrea 1974, was referring to a pieza labelled as either a scenic tonadilla "Gitanos de Cadiz osea el Tio Conejo" (in the 1830s) or as a sainete "El tío Conejo metiendo la cara en barro, o, Los gitanos de Cádiz" (in the 1840s) - we can verify that these two are the same thing because the text survives. BTW, given there is no sheet music to be found for it, it seems more likely it was a sainete – a short farce. Other scholars, however, have claimed that the piece was created much earlier - based on a newspaper announcement from Dec 30, 1807. I discovered that the first time that notice appeared was actually five days earlier, on Christmas day 1807, so this is what I am going to show you below. It is a notice in the newspaper "Diario mercantil de Cádiz" under the rubric "Diversiones Publicas" where normally theatrical and other arts events are announced. And there it is on Dec 25, 1807, an announcement about a piece called "El Tio Conejo" (direct link): The text and its google translation are.. not very clear to me - what does this even mean and how does the text indicate anything about a sainete/pieza or its plot? Isn't this just a description of some new painting or statue (whatever is wax portrait/statue) that is to be exhibited by a certain Don Luis Chiappe (there was no such person authoring sainetes/tonadillas; I checked)? Does this text make sense as a description of a play (not to me)? Or is the google translation throwing it all off? Also take another look after you see below what the 1830 piece is like and is about, but it is strange to me that some scholars think this is referring to the same piece as the 1830 finding - which makes me doubt the translation or my thinking about this. Additionally, I found out the primary source at the Cadiz municipal library and the biblio record clearly states it is an (anonymous) manuscript from 1830; the paper record also includes the censor's notice of release dated Jan 9, 1831. This would happen for a newly-created work which seeks to be performed in public and is the second reason why I think the 1807 'El Tio Conejo' is a coincidence in name only with nothing else in common. Second, let's go over two excerpts from "El tío Conejo metiendo la cara en barro, o, Los gitanos de Cádiz" - the second containing the magic word 'flamenco' - and look for the most probable meaning. The entire 1844 edition is on archive.org here: https://archive.org/details/eltioconejometie00unse/mode/2up Here's the first excerpt on page 4: And, transcribed and translated (modified Conejo's "embestiras" as the author is making him speak broken Spanish , I think): Conejo: Que me emvestiras? Director: Le vestirro... la vestidura Comprende oste? Conejo: Lo mesmito que si una gata maltesa me jablara. Conejo: What will you dress me up? Director: I will dress you ... the garment. Do you understand? Conejo: As much as if a Maltese cat is talking to me. Here's the second excerpt on page 7 that scholars are quoting: And, transcribed and translated: Director: Mi estar comer contronfios; viva el cachucha. Coneco, mi saber parlar guitano, ah? Conejo: Lo mesmito que un flamenco. Director: I will eat [...]; long live the cachucha. Conejo, I know how to speak Gitano, eh? Conejo: As much as [a] flamenco. Here's my problem - everyone is claiming that in the second excerpt the word 'flamenco' has been used in a non-Flemish way and is referring to the gitanos. In other words, they are reading the Conejo answer " Lo mesmito que un flamenco" as "As much/well as a flamenco [person]" - a lot hinges on the 'un'. Whereas, I noticed the earlier Conejo answer where he is using the same phrase structure, and it is a sarcastic answer, but anyway the structure is the same: "Lo mesmito que [] una .." Therefore I am reading Conejo's answer in the second excerpt as a sarcastic reply saying "As much as [you can speak] Flemish" - meaning not very much at all; Conejo is mocking him. I hope you can help me figure out which answer is correct; you may need to read around the excerpts in the primary source for more context (also revisit above the 1807 El Tio Conejo notice - given the text of the sainete as shown in the 1844 printing, is there any way that notice is referring to this pieza? This is the last piece of the flamenco-related timeline that is still not settled for me. After that I will post the timeline. You will see a few surprises there! Thanks!
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