Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 17:00:15)
Excellent!
Mike_Kinny -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2010 17:02:09)
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Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 17:15:35)
And Nino Ricardo,Perico del lunar and Manolo de Huelva
Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2010 17:17:40)
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Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2010 17:21:32)
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Mike_Kinny -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2010 17:40:27)
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yohan -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 18:51:57)
I really like cante in flamenco,definitely the expression and the power in the voices, although also there alot of singers I don't like. Things I don't like about the cante sometimes: -to much screaming/talking instead of singing -I miss sometimes the real melody in the cante -Old cante is very often based on a few chords so it sounds like its all the same. -when the guitar is too soft on the background
-I dont speak spanish so I have no clue what they singing about, I think I then would enjoy cante even more. anyway I always like the singing in paco de lucia's records, Estrella morente (mi cante y poema), Duquende, Miguel poveda and El Pele cds together with vicente amigo I have listen that over 9000 times. but I think to key is to just listen to as many cante as possible, for example I now even like this vid from duquende and poveda vey very much! anyone agrees with me here? [;)]
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 19:02:49)
You should go back to the early singers.Why does anyone like the copies of camaron,When you can listen to the original?Or copies of PDL for that matter.
Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2010 19:12:01)
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yohan -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 19:17:36)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Ogilby
You should go back to the early singers.Why does anyone like the copies of camaron,When you can listen to the original?Or copies of PDL for that matter.
You listen only to paco and camaron then and nothing after that? [:D] Anyway I dont think there are really 'copies' from camaron or paco. They are ofcourse influenced but that's something different.
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 19:32:22)
There is alot more detail in the melodies of the old singers.Nino Ricardo and Ramon were wonderful accompanists. I'm hooked on all the singers you mention but also Pepe Pinto.There are mostly fandango family but he was also a master of Siguriyas and Solea.He was married to Nina de los peines after all ;and his brother in law was Tomas Pavon!
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 19:37:52)
I never listen to PDL I don't listen to guitar solo(That's another story)I listen to por derecha cante flamenco.I like camaron but others (ie Terremoto,Perla et al)better. let the hysteria begin.
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 19:43:18)
You don't think they are copies? OK tribute bands If they were money ,the Secret service would confiscate them:-)
Ron.M -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 19:50:28)
quote:
let the hysteria begin
I don't think it's hysteria...
I mean Paco was the most amazing, best of the best...probably even more...a completely new way of playing Flamenco guitar back in the late 60's and through the 70's.
The guy is now in his mid 60's and pretty rich and comfortable.
All the old timers hang on in there because their life is meaningless without doing what they always have done...from Frank Sinatra to Dylan.
But IMO, it doesn't mean their work and ideas get better and better with time.
Their early and most meangful work is on record for all to see and hear, but the truth of this big world is that other, younger people come up with just the same ideas and passions and talent to display as they once did..
cheers,
Ron
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 19:55:24)
Modern cante is old cante.Solea is solea. Siguriyas is siguriyas.Now the chords some guitarists decided now fit the same cantes is a sad developement.But the cadence is the same w/ Jazzy sounding passing chords . Same cante .It's like improving Choclate chip cookies.
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 19:59:56)
Sinatra stopped hanging on .He be dead. Apologies
yohan -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 20:08:42)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Ogilby
Excellent!
I don't follow [8|] anyway it's personal taste whether you like "old" or "new" flamenco.
(Btw I think paco is still amazing and growing musicaly, cositas buenas is a masterpiece imo.)
@ richard are you from the old school foro? [:D]
Ron.M -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 20:26:43)
quote:
Sinatra stopped hanging on .He be dead.
LOL!
I know....but I bet they buried him with a mic, just in case. [:D]
cheers,
Ron
PS: Would love to see The Who get back together again to perform "My Generation" [:D]
Mike_Kinny -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2010 20:29:46)
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Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 22:11:07)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny
quote:
like improving Choclate chip cookies.
The good thing about changing or improving is that the old recipe isn't gone, there are just more recipes to choose.
Musicians are free to to perform in any style they want and audiences are free to choose anyone of them they please.
I agree.You can think men are women . However,I personally think the addition of cat crunchies to the chocolate cookie recipe is a mistake
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 22:14:30)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
quote:
Sinatra stopped hanging on .He be dead.
LOL!
I know....but I bet they buried him with a mic, just in case. [:D]
cheers,
Ron
PS: Would love to see The Who get back together again to perform "My Generation" [:D]
Not Pink flloyd doing 'The garden wall"?
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 22:19:05)
quote:
ORIGINAL: yohan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Ogilby
Excellent!
I don't follow [8|] anyway it's personal taste whether you like "old" or "new" flamenco.
(Btw I think paco is still amazing and growing musicaly, cositas buenas is a masterpiece imo.)
@ richard are you from the old school foro? [:D]
Never....Those old fuddy duddies. Paco once criticized Sabicas saying "He made the same record 500 times" Be careful what you wish for.
Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 4 2010 22:28:06)
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Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 22:28:38)
Flamenco is a work in process. Always has been. The earliest recorded bulerias (Chuflas) were sung in major and phrygian and were phrased in twelves. The guitarists could not accompany the phrygian because they had never dealt with it in that context.
You'll need some documentation on that statement.This smells like facts not in evidence.Gerherd steingress Semi famous Flamenco book writer espoused the "fact" that flamenco began in 1850 and was taught to the gypsies by the bohemian intellectuals.He based this upon the "fact" that there is no Newspaper references to flamenco before 1850.He missed the fact that the Seville newspaper began in 1853.
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 22:34:09)
[Paco had a deep respect for Sabicas. That withstanding, if you listen to Sabicas material Paco's critique is not that far off. Same could be said about Ricardo or Montoya (falseta-wise because they did not reord as much).
Oh naughty naughty. There are many witnesses to the fact that Ricardo could improvise at will. Ramon's 1927 recording of solos is totally different from the 1933 recording
Richard Ogilby -> RE: How much do you really enjoy cante flamenco? (Nov. 4 2010 22:39:19)
[In contrast, Paco is far from making the same record 500 times. His acumen is amazing. He plays in many tones that Sabicas and his contemporaries did not. That alone helps to make things somewhat fresh. [/quote]
I agree, he doesn't need no stinking flamenco getting in the way of his amazing solos . "Somewhat fresh" that's hitting the nail on the head. You'll never hear that phrase in a feminine product commercial.
