Anders Eliasson -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 2:32:29)
quote:
Why should a factory made or factory supplied mexican guitar be so much worse
Because in order to be honest they would have to call the guitars "Mexican guitars" and this means lowering the price with 50 - 75%
bursche -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 2:37:59)
Disadvantage for the builder. But unless Amir is one of the myterious luthiers it shouldn't bother him.
I'm sure he was sponsored by them [:D]
Anders Eliasson -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 3:32:47)
quote:
I'm sure he was sponsored by them
Or at least emotionally connected. [8D]
Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 3:38:18)
quote:
Amir, calm down. now you sound like a 12 year old groupie, who is angry because someone said something about his "star"
You sound as foolish whenever YOUR star is questioned. [:D]
bursche -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 4:28:01)
quote:
Or at least emotionally connected.
Exactly, bucks make you worried.
Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 4:41:09)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny
quote:
Amir, calm down. now you sound like a 12 year old groupie, who is angry because someone said something about his "star"
You sound as foolish whenever YOUR star is questioned. [:D]
Which "star" do you mean ? Paco or Conde ? [:D][:D]
Well, for someone who said that he voted for Paco to be on the Fakemenco list, i think you were treated with more respect than you actually deserve [:)]. Normally you should have received some "foolish" comments, but you were simply ignored [;)]
Ron.M -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 4:45:33)
quote:
I suggest that in your example the food was substantially changed in the UK e.g. slaughtered, skinned, chopped or peeled and packaged here.
Yes Simon,
Especially the "chopped" part.
A meat carcass can be brought in from Poland and chopped, minced, or cut into joints and then displayed as "British" (note...NOT British MEAT...that would be illegal).
A bit like "España" could mean anything, but "Made in Spain" would be illegal if it were not so.
Consumers and Farmers are arguing that the Country of origin of the product MUST be displayed on the packaging.
As it stands, a Union Jack and the word "British" without any further qualification stands for anything and nothing and cannot be successfuly challenged in court under the present laws. (According to what I've heard on the consumer programmes).
cheers,
Ron
Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 4:58:46)
quote:
Well, for someone who said that he voted for Paco to be on the Fakemenco list, i think you were treated with more respect than you actually deserve . Normally you should have received some "foolish" comments, but you were simply ignored
See what I meant? You sound foolish now. [:D]
For your information PDL was already on the list and had paid to be removed by the time I nominated him. Ask Jason if you don't believe me. Sadly that won't help you either. You have your own fixed little reality in your head.
Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 5:11:11)
its ok Mike [:D]
richard -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 6:20:16)
Can you play like that? or do you have a band like that?... I think you are just jealous of him and that’s all…
Jason
Grisha
Ricardo
Todd
XXX -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 7:07:38)
quote:
ORIGINAL: bursche
We'll always praise the downright mediocrity of our Tomatitos, Habichuelas, Nuñez's, because we feel comfortable as the idiots we are.
The plural sounds funny. Like as if there are many Tomatitos, Habichuelas, Nuñez's, but only one ... Paco! But maybe i have overseen some sarcasm...
Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 7:13:14)
quote:
ORIGINAL: richard
Can you play like that? or do you have a band like that?... I think you are just jealous of him and that’s all…
Jason
Grisha
Ricardo
Todd
hey richard , i know what you mean, but thats really not the point and we shouldn't talk to Prof. and his student along the same line.
i mean nobody here started a "d...k length challange" except prof. in the past and now his student.
nobody is here in the forum to show off, including all the people you mentioned (Grisha, Ricardo, etc.)
these guys are here to help and maybe sometimes have some fun with others in the flamenco community.
thats the spirit of the forum imo. nothing else.
i mean even if we all would be bloody beginners, and even if there would be no Pro. player here, it wouldn't change anything.
prof. is still who he is, and andalusian guitars would still be the same guitars.
and i would still start the same thread and question the business tactics of Prof.
it has nothing to do with my (or anyone elses) abilities of playing guitar.
this is a DISCUSSION forum.
it is not a place for someone to be adored or idolised (and surely not for a copy of Paco).
if someone would want to adore somebody, he would choose the originals !
that was Mr. Rubens mistake.
He thought he can come here, put everyone to silence, talk bad about every and each other player and teacher. and that there should be no discussions. we should just shut up and learn from Prof. Ruben.
well, big mistake.
and now the student is making the same mistake and embarassing his teacher even more.
Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 7:32:29)
quote:
this is a DISCUSSION forum.
it is not a place for someone to be adored or idolised
Woah! So miracles can happen. [:D]
Are you saying Paco is not god anymore and we can have a discussion about him without being treated disrespectfully and receiving foolish comments or simply being ignored?
XXX -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 7:33:41)
Thats the only exception, Mike. ok seriously, what would be exactly the topic on Paco you want to discuss? You wrote a Phd to prove that he is no god? Or you simply don't like his music? That i would respect, but I DO think it is pointless to discuss of PdL's earnings.
bursche -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 7:45:00)
quote:
but only one ... Paco
One Paco, SanPaco. Time to start a TV spot.
This is obviously the kind of hype Paco won't like, but who knows:
Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 7:51:44)
quote:
Thats the only exception, Mike. ok seriously, what would be exactly the topic on Paco you want to discuss? You wrote a Phd to prove that he is no god? Or you simply don't like his music? That i would respect, but I DO think it is pointless to discuss of PdL's earnings.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say Deniz but I DO think that discussing Paco's earrings are definitely pointless.
Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 7:58:18)
hey Mike, you can discuss whatever you like.
you can also join a socialist party and say that Karl Marx was an a$shole if you like [:D]
XXX -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 7:59:34)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny
I'm not sure what you are trying to say Deniz but I DO think that discussing Paco's earrings are definitely pointless.
I appreciate your agreement. [:)]
Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 8:02:28)
quote:
you can also join a socialist party and say that Karl Marx was an a$shole if you like
Thanks for helping me to understand your reactions bro. So you think that Paco is the founder of flamenco and this forum too? [&:]
Edit: Furthermore even if I join a socialist party I wont call Marx a god.
XXX -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 8:05:51)
Flamenco and socialism are no "inventions" by a single person. A party can be found by a single person, but it is always the masses that constitute it. Believe it or not, Paco and Marx are constitutional persons for their fields.
edit on edit: if you join a socialist party you don't believe in god anyway [;)]
Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 8:10:43)
no, i think paco should be put in a list together with ottmar liebert. just like wikipedia mentioned: they are all nuevo flamenco [:D], and wikipedia can't be wrong.
now seriously Mike, if you want to have some discussion about Paco, open a new thread and tell me whats on your mind .... no problem at all.... (assumed you are really interested in a discussion, and that you were not just trying to pay me back something by quoting me in each and every thread [:D][;)], because if that is the case, then no need for a discussion about Paco,,,, just continue your little revange [;)]
Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 8:23:48)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Deniz
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny
I'm not sure what you are trying to say Deniz but I DO think that discussing Paco's earrings are definitely pointless.
I appreciate your agreement. [:)]
And I must add that they are pretty nice. [:D]
Escribano -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 8:24:50)
quote:
if you want to have some discussion about Paco, open a new thread and tell me whats on your mind
This is headed off the main topic guys.
XXX -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 8:29:13)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny
quote:
ORIGINAL: Deniz
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mike_Kinny
I'm not sure what you are trying to say Deniz but I DO think that discussing Paco's earrings are definitely pointless.
I appreciate your agreement. [:)]
And I must add that they are pretty nice. [:D]
LOOOL, i just saw it now. Sorry Escribano, we'll stop it now. Ok Mike, open a new topic with a Phd thesis on "why Paco is not god".
Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 9:08:28)
quote:
edit on edit: if you join a socialist party you don't believe in god anyway
You caught me there Deniz [;)]
Ok Simon that was the last one. [:D]
Michael1917 -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 15:37:59)
I checked last week with one of the guitar dealers that sells Andalusian Guitars and asked them the name of the luthier and where the guitars are made. The dealer e-mailed me and said that the guitars are made in the Canary Islands (off coast of Spain) by one luthier and an apprentice/assistant. However, the dealer also told me that they had an arrangement with the luthier not to reveal his name and that they had to respect the agreement they made with the luthier not to reveal his name, etcetera. Whether Andalusian Guitars are any good or not, I do not know. But for the amount of money they are asking, it is dubious to not know the name of the luthier and the exact address of where the shop is. I think that reveals a lot.
Ricardo -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 15:47:56)
Just a general post to what I read since this thread got reactivated. It was funny at first, but now I am kind of disturbed. Seeing the vids with the child, and now this thing with amir makes me really upset. I have met players from all around the world and the vast majority of us can meet and play with each other using some of Paco's music as sort of "standard" flamenco jam material, and the feeling of commeradery is amazing. What is happening here with Diaz is taking all that away, it is really sad, and seeing the impact he is able to make on students is frustrating. All any of them need to do is watch some videos of Paco and see these claims that Diaz "method" is the only true way are simply wrong. Even fingerings and technique being miss represented after all. And this chosing a guitar thing is amazing, the look on the faces of the students, the way he plays the G string on all those guitars....I am really upset guys.[&:]
Anyway, I will get over it, but I am gonna skip out on any more of these threads and vids for a while, cuz it is really depressing now.
Want to say about amir's conde, I have not yet seen any esteso guitar with a bridge like that design, nor rosette. Head stock shape is the only thing "esteso" looking on the guitar. Just an observation, not sure what it means but it caught my attention and raised an eyebrow.
I hope all the students and observers of those vids keep an open mind about all this.
Ricardo
kovachian -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 16:14:25)
So, assuming the dealer isn't BSing you, I would say that Andalusian Guitars of Spain really should be called Andalusian-style Guitars of an African archipelago of Spain. Doesn't really have the same ring to it, huh? Forget it. [:D] I guess the dealer is a little rusty on geography but that's trivial, I'd suppose.
But the identities of the "luthier and his assistant" are super-duper-secret? I think I see why now.
richard -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 16:57:41)
Below are the quotes I didn't post Arash, the point i wanted to make is.
that we do have some really good players here, so saying that Ruben is too good to be welcomed here is ridiculous imo.
I dont think Rubens playing has ever been the problem people have with him.
<<Fortunately I know how he plays, and how all you play… I went to his last concert with thousands of people here
I already knew that in this foro flamenco for tourists, he is not welcomed, he is too good to be welcomed, I observed that here as well as in gsi, people prefer rather to talk and praise mediocre players, therefore its not appealing to me >>
quote:
ORIGINAL: Arash
quote:
ORIGINAL: richard
Can you play like that? or do you have a band like that?... I think you are just jealous of him and that’s all…
Jason
Grisha
Ricardo
Todd
hey richard , i know what you mean, but thats really not the point and we shouldn't talk to Prof. and his student along the same line.
i mean nobody here started a "d...k length challange" except prof. in the past and now his student.
nobody is here in the forum to show off, including all the people you mentioned (Grisha, Ricardo, etc.)
these guys are here to help and maybe sometimes have some fun with others in the flamenco community.
thats the spirit of the forum imo. nothing else.
i mean even if we all would be bloody beginners, and even if there would be no Pro. player here, it wouldn't change anything.
prof. is still who he is, and andalusian guitars would still be the same guitars.
and i would still start the same thread and question the business tactics of Prof.
it has nothing to do with my (or anyone elses) abilities of playing guitar.
this is a DISCUSSION forum.
it is not a place for someone to be adored or idolised (and surely not for a copy of Paco).
if someone would want to adore somebody, he would choose the originals !
that was Mr. Rubens mistake.
He thought he can come here, put everyone to silence, talk bad about every and each other player and teacher. and that there should be no discussions. we should just shut up and learn from Prof. Ruben.
well, big mistake.
and now the student is making the same mistake and embarassing his teacher even more.
quote:
quote:
amirdeiran -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 18:54:12)
A pure diamond is a pure diamond doesn’t matter if it is from Brazil, from India, or Canada, just like pure gold is pure gold everywhere, a great guitar is a great guitar everywhere, and can be made anywhere.
Your “made in” philosophy does not convince me. Why? Because I regret to pay more than $6,000 euro for a Conde guitar top of the line, that I personally bought in Spain in their store /with a lot of defects,(impared holes on the bridge, wrong tuning etc.) as shown here http://****/rdvideo180.html
and of course this guitar is -made in Spain- and so what?
Therefore, only thing that matters to me is quality… Undeniable quality, that speaks for itself… I believe in quality, not in “made in” guitars If a great guitar is made in China, Ole China!…
Look guys, if any of you can show me a guitar of other brand that sounds as good as this 2 Andalusians here http://****/rdvideo172.html (I have one Andalusian and is flawless) I don’t care if it is from China, Taiwan, Mexico, Spain or Taipei… I buy it, and pay whatever it cost,because I want to sound exactly like this. Not otherwise. Sorry but for me on a flamenco guitar any other attribute other than QUALITY is meaningless.
