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Escribano -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 11:14:56)
"Andalusian Guitars of Spain are now the most prestigious guitar makers in Spain also confirmed by Paco De Lucia through his Endorsement of these Master Grade Guitars!"
Would be so much easier if their advertising was more informative. Anyway, their label says "España", so that's alright then [8|]
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Patrick -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 12:55:04)
Note it doesn't say they are built in Spain. You can play all kinds of games with a label. They may have a post office box in Spain, but still be built in Mexico or wherever.
An infamous dealer in the US played label games in the 60's and got called on it. He was trying to make it sound like they were built in Spain, but were actually from China. He then changed his label to list all the components coming from allover the world. In the end, it's still just a piece of paper.
aeolus -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 13:02:31)
The label does say España in the lower right corner. I though all imports had to identify the place of origin.
Estevan -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 13:11:08)
quote:
I though all imports had to identify the place of origin.
They would if they were honest.
Someone who knows Ruben told me that he said that the guitars are made in Mexico then "sent to Spain to be set up"! You can't beat that for BS![8D]
Escribano -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 13:11:49)
Patrick means it doesn't say "Hecho en España" only "España"
Lasonanta.com describes them as "Country Spain"
Ron.M -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 13:23:18)
quote:
The label does say España in the lower right corner. I though all imports had to identify the place of origin.
Umm..could be the LABEL is made in Spain? [:D]
In the UK we constantly have consumer programs about food in supermarkets marked with a big union jack saying "British" and at a very low price.....undercutting UK farmers who can't produce at that price under highly restrictive animal welfare regulations.
But actually it comes from Poland or somewhere and was PACKED in the UK.
(Apparently that's not contravening UK law as it stands!)
cheers,
Ron
Escribano -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 14:03:54)
Ron, I am not a lawyer but the UK Trades Description Act 1968 appears to be very clear on misleading labels regarding the origin of goods. I suggest that in your example the food was substantially changed in the UK e.g. slaughtered, skinned, chopped or peeled and packaged here.
quote:
"If reference to a country is made, it must not be made in such a way as to mislead the consumer. E.g., a watch which is sold in the UK manufactured in a country other than Switzerland cannot be marked with the words "Made in Switzerland", or "the Swiss Watch company", as such statements would be considered false or misleading."
quote:
(a) include any place name - for example: “Jones of Piccadilly Limited”, “Sheffield Cutlers PLC”, “Windermere Sweaters”, “Italian Collection” etc.; (b) refer to any person (living, fictional or dead) who is closely associated with a particular place - for example: John Bull, Uncle Sam, Bonnie Prince Charlie etc.; or (c) refer to a well known structure or geographical feature - for example: the Eiffel Tower, Ben Nevis or the river Rhine?
...If your goods, labels, packaging or display material bear any of the above, and do not refer to the place where the goods were actually manufactured or produced, unless you take steps to correct the potentially misleading presentation, you may be committing an offence under the Act.
Of course, other EU member states have their own rules.
Patrick -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 14:07:47)
quote:
Umm..could be the LABEL is made in Spain?
Exactly! Who knows for sure? When you get down to the facts, we may never know. I don't know if anyone has all the facts on Conde's and people talk about them everyday of the week.
In the end, it's still just a piece of paper. If it's a good guitar it will stand on it's own. A lot of smoke and mirrors in the guitar business.
CuerdasDulces -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 14:14:22)
Ah, who cares...
Deleted
amirdeiran -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 14:48:31)
Jealousy and envy are like that…so I understand you.
What’s gsi or what’s your opinion about maestro Ruben is irrelevant for me,because none of you play like him first of all.
If RD is with Andalusian Guitars or not, that I really don’t know,nor it is important to me,but that he is a great flamenco player, and definitively superior to any of you in any palo,that’s for sure, so who cares if you like him or not?...,who knows you?...besides your family members…
You are just a foreigner and so I am, I own a Conde guitar which I lend him for his documentary,in fact you can see me here in 5:50
Fortunately I know how he plays, and how all you play… I went to his last concert with thousands of people here http://****/rdvideo158.html
Can you play like that? or do you have a band like that?... I think you are just jealous of him and that’s all…
I already knew that in this foro flamenco for tourists, he is not welcomed, he is too good to be welcomed, I observed that here as well as in gsi, people prefer rather to talk and praise mediocre players, therefore its not appealing to me to be sincere.
So please forgive my taste for real guitar and guitars and be happy with your great achievements.
Amir.
bursche -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 15:12:04)
We're not offending the Professor, just those guitars that are obviously unrelated to him if I got you right.
Btw: They always remind me of Apple - kind of lifestyle thingies: You're not only buying an instrument but a whole philosophy package delivered GRATUITOUSLY.
quote:
Grammy award winner Chick Corea praise him here
Chick feels comfortable with his scientologists, Ruben's got Andalusian guitars, kimonos and barefoot gigs. Fine.
We'll always praise the downright mediocrity of our Tomatitos, Habichuelas, Nuñez's, because we feel comfortable as the idiots we are.
One day maybe one or two of us will be hit by the epiphany of Jazz-fusion and then I hope you'll show the wisdom to care about us as if we were your returning prodigal son.
Meanwhile I think I'm going to buy Ricardo's CD.
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ddk -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 15:24:26)
Oh Oh! Check out Ruben's guitar analysis. It looks like Ricardo better take his Conde to Ruben for a quality check up! (maybe Paco should too!) Apparently the "Andalusian" master-quality guitars are mucho superior and you both are being foolish to play those inferior Condes.[8D][:D]
Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 16:10:08)
quote:
ORIGINAL: amirdeiran
Jealousy and envy are like that…so I understand you.
What’s gsi or what’s your opinion about maestro Ruben is irrelevant for me,because none of you play like him first of all.
If RD is with Andalusian Guitars or not, that I really don’t know,nor it is important to me,but that he is a great flamenco player, and definitively superior to any of you in any palo,that’s for sure, so who cares if you like him or not?...,who knows you?...besides your family members…
You are just a foreigner and so I am, I own a Conde guitar which I lend him for his documentary,in fact you can see me here in 5:50
Fortunately I know how he plays, and how all you play… I went to his last concert with thousands of people here http://****/rdvideo158.html
Can you play like that? or do you have a band like that?... I think you are just jealous of him and that’s all…
I already knew that in this foro flamenco for tourists, he is not welcomed, he is too good to be welcomed, I observed that here as well as in gsi, people prefer rather to talk and praise mediocre players, therefore its not appealing to me to be sincere.
So please forgive my taste for real guitar and guitars and be happy with your great achievements.
Amir.
[:D]
Amir, calm down. now you sound like a 12 year old groupie, who is angry because someone said something about his "star"
how is that it is not important to you anymore, if Professor is running Andalusian Guitars, whereas all your posts till your last post was based on that?
now you change the subject and are talking about his abilities as a guitarist?
you are really behaving childish.
where did i say anything about his guitar playing skills ?
in fact, i think he is a very good guitar player (i never said anything against his guitar skills, you can check my posts).
and yes, i am not a good player. just an intermediate afficionado.
but i am not jelous of anybody.
if i would want to be jelous, i would be jelous of paco de lucia himself. who else better than him to be jelous of (if you want to be jelous)? but i have to dissapoint you,,,i love him and wish him 1000s more concerts and millions of dollars till he is 100 years old :) and so do i for hundreds of other guitarists (including many good guitarists here in the foro like Grisha, Ricardo, Jason, etc.)
but sorry, your professor ruined his reputation (not as a guitarist) but as a discussion partner and human beeing in a flamenco community (at least here in the "tourist forum" :) thats not my fault.
anyways, good luck with your guitar, your teacher and everything else.
and believe it or not, i even wish your professor all the best with whatever he is doing. i hope he will change his attitude and learn from his mistakes. until that time, he should expect reactions to his comments and his shady business practices.
Florian -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 16:19:51)
quote:
who knows you?...besides your family members…
Edited and removed ........[:D](too eazy)
if you gonna register to a forum and talk like that to people you dont know and insult people not even involved in the conversation or have had anything to do with you or your hero...i dont get it...what are u 5 ?
why did you bother registering ?
Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 16:34:28)
somehow it is funny.
the students of prof. seam to have learned and copied more than just guitar from their teacher !
seams like there were other lessons too!
[:D]
Florian -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 16:36:53)
amirdeiran just cheking...is this the guy you are refering to ? who is he ? is he spanish ? he must be good...he must have accompanyed some amazing flamenco singers...whos he accompanyed ?
or is this another guy or is it the same guy ?
this guy glasses so i am not sure if its the same guy...just did a search in google photos for Diaz
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Estevan -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 17:01:02)
quote:
somehow it is funny.
the students of prof. seam to have learned and copied more than just guitar from their teacher !
seems like there were other lessons too!
It's a cult. Ruben, with his self-appointed titles (and his robes!), is the guru. [&:]
It's sad, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter. Those people will live and learn.
(Meanwhile, it's also funny! [:D][8D] )
Estevan -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 17:03:33)
quote:
or is this another guy or is it the same guy ?
That's the same guy. That's Paco's chair, picture taken in Yucatan.
Oh, hang on... maybe that's Lake Ontario...
Florian -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 17:06:33)
quote:
picture taken in Yucatan.
why come the chair is in the water ?
GuitarVlog -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 17:16:48)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Florian why come the chair is in the water ?
Shipwreck.
Sbu_01 -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 17:17:09)
Did we ever find out where the guitars where built?
Florian -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 17:24:08)
quote:
Did we ever find out where the guitars where built?
probably in haven
Estevan -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 18:02:36)
quote:
why come the chair is in the water ?
He thought he could command the tides.
Oops...
estebanana -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 18:02:57)
Jason!
Im gonna get you for this Mc Guire.
Estevan -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 18:13:12)
quote:
Did we ever find out where the guitars where built?
Well, amirdeiran - like his guru - instead of answering the question [where in Spain are they made?], changed the subject.
But, yes, we know they're made in Mexico.
Not (as I told "Orlando") that there's anything wrong with that - there are some fine guitars made in Mexico. The problem is not so much with the possible quality of the guitars, but with the salesman who lies about them, in the same way that he lies about being a Professor and a Doctor. Which calls into question the possible quality of those guitars - if they are so good, why does he need to lie about them?
This is getting really tedious. [8D] Can we talk about flamenco.? [;)]
(But those really are some ugly ass guitars!)
RTC -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 20:28:09)
According to the website, No andalucian guitars available until 2012, if you get on their waiting list. Sorry Guys, I guess we will have to settle to go to GSI and by those underporforming guitars such as Condes, Reyes, etc
minordjango -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 21:58:45)
quote:
Shipwreck.
the guitars are produced from the finest driftwood from the ship!!.
the shirt was actually a white short , (but alas stained in the coral reef!.
actually if the guitars pay good fine , prices aint to bad, and professors info and vids are really cool, perhaps a bit sharp on comments, but all good he aint the first on here.
any one up for a pint ?
Anders Eliasson -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 4 2010 23:19:09)
quote:
if they are so good, why does he need to lie about them?
And here we come to the real problem:
Internet sucks in many ways. You cant really trust anything. Whatever can be made look and sound fantastic..
Its a funny thing that what we thought would be an enourmous source of information has turned out to be an enourmous source of misinformation.
The Andalusian guitars story is a typical internet story. If someone wants to believe it, they are free to do so. I hope we are all free to make a fool out of ourselves. [:D]
bursche -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 0:33:37)
quote:
seams like there were other lessons too!
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
I play a Sanchis guitar. As known at least the Neck and fretboard are factory delivered for my model. But they do still offer quite decent guitars. Why should a factory made or factory supplied mexican guitar be so much worse, amirdeiran. I can't see no problem inside!
