RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Full Version)

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amirdeiran -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 19:05:45)

I forgot to say…
first play like them…
then you can criticize their dress code…
http://****/rdfoto37.html



Sbu_01 -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 19:52:14)

I dont believe, amir from Iran, anyone will argue that a fine instrument is good regardless of its origin or maker. Threads have been started discussing the quality of Conde's and other "famous" guitars and really it is all subjective, what you want from an instrument is what ultimately matters. There are many reputable makers from Mexico, USA, etc. who warrant respect and obviously other who not so much.

What I dont like is the feeling of being let on. When an individual wants me to believe that he is vendor neutral and all he wants to do is give good tips on purchasing a guitar well thank you very much, much obliged. But when it turns out there seems to be a conflict of interest now there is a problem, I am being led towards a product in which that person has financial interests in. If a person wants to advertise on behalf of a product that is great.

But not saying " I am just trying to help you out, not sell you a product" and in the same breath "This is the best product buy now". It just seems dishonest.



itoprover -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 20:00:01)

Amir, why didn't you notice the defects when you were in Conde store? When did you buy it?(just asking because "playing in" process takes quite a while on some Condes) - mine opened up after 14 months of everyday playing.

Anyways I just wanted to chime in to say that I have tried at least 5 of these "Andalusian" Guitars in the past and here is my opinion. My buddy owns an "Andalusian" cypress/spruce blanca (Hernandez model) which is not bad - in fact it is very loud and honestly beats any guitar I have ever tried in terms of volume.
However it lacks the tone and balance big time and there is no that specific blanca sound we are all looking for: in 2 words it is loud and clear but that is all about it. For me it sounds like an amplified Yamaha Cg171SF. Machine head (6th string gear) broke after a month of playing and repair or replacement was refused by the seller (no names here - not too hard to guess).
I must say I really liked that guitar before I bought an A26.
The rest 4 "Andalusian" guitars I tried didn't even have the volume and clarity as my friends' guitar but were ok. Very weird bridge and headstock on all of them,
thick neck and they are kinda heavy (but probably the same weight as Condes).
The comparison in quality of sound to Conde is rather ugly - even the worst Conde I have seen beats all 5 "Andalusian" I tried. But for $1300-1750 these guitars perhaps would have been a good deal. Just an opinion, not going to take sides here :)



CuerdasDulces -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 5 2010 20:57:20)

So was this the original andalusian that paco tried out...?
looks like they were called something else. Has a different bridge and the headstock is different too.
http://****/rdfoto4.html
http://arcangel.fastmail.net/guitars/cano/#



Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 4:10:11)

just want to add one thing, before leaving this thread forever (edit: hmm, i think i will still stay for a while lol)
this thing about the flaws and defects is ridiculous.

i have a 300 euro factory made guitar here (made by Saez , model 22) with perfect drilling, perfect distance between the strings and perfect......simply everything which you professor critisized on other guitars in his videos.

even my yamaha CG171SF had no such defects and flaws, and it was a 300 Euro guitar too.
sorry about your Conde.

so the fact that your professor wants to imply that all other guitars have some defects, just Andalusian Guitars don't ist just absurd and laughable. he must assume that we are all idiots. i guess many luthiers are laughing their a... off, when watching those videos.

now only thing remains is just playability and sound:

- sound: judging by the videos, the Andalusian Guitars sound CRAP ! imo. they are just loud, nothing special.
i would prefer many guitars from many other makers over those any day. even in the videos from Prof, i found some of those other guitars (those with the defects), sounded better than Andalusian Guitars :)

i would prefer a $1000 Sanchis Lopez over any of those Andalusian Guitars any day

and if i want to buy a good mexican guitar, i go to Salvador Castillo or Francisco Navarro, i go to their workshop, say hello to the luthier and let them make me a great guitar, sign it, etc.

they have nothing to hide ! (like your Professor, or the Guitar makers who work for him!)

for sure i won't buy one of these Andalusian Guitars made by some unknown mysterious luthiers (who are probably some Slaves of Prof. Ruben, kept quite with a adhesion contract, caged in a workshop in Hawai or something )

- playability: not discussible through videos

---

however, as mentioned, all these points are IRRELEVANT.

Main Subject was:

- Shady business Tactics
- Antisocial behaviour towards other Flamencos in the past, before your professor left this forum
- Many wrong information provided
- Fake Prof. Title, etc.

---

now you can continue adoring your mexican guitar god.

i am finished with both of you [:)]



Florian -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 4:24:03)

quote:

I forgot to say…
first play like them…
then you can criticize their dress code…
http://****/rdfoto37.html


really ? so in order to complain about a bad bj i have to be able to give one ? who made up that rule ? [:)]



XXX -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 5:03:28)

I agree about the business tactics of Andalusian guitars, but lets not be hypocrite and critisize also other "brands" for not naming the builder, advertising wrongly ("selected by Tomatito") etc...
my 2c: What i like about the guitar testing videos is that you can decide yourself which guitar you like. I assume we all know what kind of sound we are after, so we can choose to like it or not. Some of the things he says make sense, wrong distances ARE a defect imo. Other things like the reverse stringing i tried and didnt like it. Most of the stuff he says i knew already, but if i would be a complete beginner, these videos would have helped me much.


Let me make clear, not talking here about business policies. But i honestly trust him when he says he wants to enlighten people. All the teaching videos he shared cant be worth nothing. After all i consider him an authority, a teacher of flamenco guitar. I dont mind the talking about Paco inventing the negra etc. I have heard that rumor one or two times, from people who are not at all Paco fans. Its just talking about history, and i am not interested in such because i just want to become a good player, not a historian.



Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 5:43:48)

quote:

I agree about the business tactics of Andalusian guitars, but lets not be hypocrite and critisize also other "brands" for not naming the builder, advertising wrongly ("selected by Tomatito") etc...
my 2c: What i like about the guitar testing videos is that you can decide yourself which guitar you like. I assume we all know what kind of sound we are after, so we can choose to like it or not. Some of the things he says make sense, wrong distances ARE a defect imo. Other things like the reverse stringing i tried and didnt like it. Most of the stuff he says i knew already, but if i would be a complete beginner, these videos would have helped me much.


Olé Cojones!

And don't forget Paco's endorsement. Ok they say they have "heard" (source?) that Paco's management is "considering" to take legal action.
However legally Paco should have denied that from the day he got aware of the matter. At the least he should have displayed a notice on his website that he has never given any endorsement to Andalusian Guitars and the signed note is fake. By not doing so he is legally confirming the fact.

The note looks genuine and Paco isn't denying it. So I don't see what the problem is.



XXX -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 6:14:03)

Why should it bother me, as a student of guitar, if he is/was a genuine disciple of PDL, or whether PDL likes his guitars etc..? We all know these things are business things, just like advertising you guitar with Tomatito etc. Besides im not even interested in learning "PDL's technique", just "flamenco technique" is enough. Sorry, but even if Paco would highly recommend him or his guitars, it simply boils down to whether I, as a student, think that he is a good teacher or not. So, if he says the opposite it doesn't effect my decision either.



Mike_Kinny -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 6:21:17)

quote:

Why should it bother me, as a student of guitar, if he is/was a genuine disciple of PDL, or whether PDL likes his guitars etc..? We all know these things are business things, just like advertising you guitar with Tomatito etc.


Absolutely, however I wanted to clear up that matter for those who like to make up their own version of reality by means of Photoshop. [:D]



at_leo_87 -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 8:53:09)

quote:


really ? so in order to complain about a bad bj i have to be able to give one ? who made up that rule ?


bro, you got some courage if you complain, especially during. CHOMP CHOMP!!! [:D]



Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 10:09:31)

@deniz,

the point is, that those are not fair "guitar testing videos". just hidden advertising for a single brand, by badmouthing all the others.

how come that there is not one single other guitar in the 15 videos (except Andalusian Guitars) which is not somehow crap in the eyes of the professor ?

and who said that wrong distances are not a defect?
of course those are defects. like some other defects which he mentioned.

but what Prof. is implying, is that most guitars out there have all these defects (except his guitars of course) this is simply not true. most expensive guitars don't have such defects. even many cheap guitars don't have such defects. i just measured all these details on my guitars (different price classes). all perfect.

regarding other brands: i think we had about 1000 threads regarding the business policy of Conde for instance.
I guess 50% or more of the people here in the foro hate Conde because of that reason, for instance. and thats ok.
we can discuss it. i experienced that first-hand.

So it is not hyprcrite if we also have one thread for Andalusian Guitars!
specially considering all the other things happened in the past.

oh and no other brand made such videos like Prof.

and regarding "good teacher": well, maybe you don't care about the person behind lessons, as long as he plays good and as long as you can suck some info and some falsetas out of his videos, etc.

i simply can't even watch this guy anymore after all the BS he talked here and elsewhere about many people, from which some of them are helping us here in the foro since YEARS for free.

and this amir guy was simply the icing on the cake.



Gummy -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 10:15:50)

quote:

Absolutely, however I wanted to clear up that matter for those who like to make up their own version of reality by means of Photoshop.


I found a couple other photos online..[:)]



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Gummy -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 10:16:56)

[:)]



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Gummy -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 10:21:52)

[:)] My Favorite one...



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Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 10:26:25)

[:D][:D][:D]



estebanana -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 10:30:01)

These guitars suck.



Estevan -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 10:45:20)

quote:

I found a couple other photos online..

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]



Ron.M -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 10:46:14)

quote:

These guitars suck.


Can we have it on the record here (for possible legal reasons) that both Simon and I and Henry think that Andalusian Guitars are the very best that have ever been made in the whole History of Flamenco guitars.

Personally speaking, the sonorous, sweet, sublime timbric colors are just about the best I've ever heard in a long time.

And that's only from the videos!

(I'd just like that on the record should any lawyers wish to quote us here![;)])

cheers,

Ron



Florian -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 11:09:37)

the funnyest thing is that the guitars are probably not that bad but because if all the bs i will never ever look at one or try one...

and ruben is a good guitarist but again because of all the bs..i dont wanna know, i dont wanna hear, i dont wanna see...

and the funnyest thing is that in a few months from now he will send another student in to show us his "letters" lol[:D]



JasonMcGuire -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 11:11:12)

Don't worry,

http://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/overview[8D]

Feel free to state your OPINIONS on the internet. This thread is more funny than Fakemenco™



Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 11:27:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

These guitars suck.


Can we have it on the record here (for possible legal reasons) that both Simon and I and Henry think that Andalusian Guitars are the very best that have ever been made in the whole History of Flamenco guitars.

Personally speaking, the sonorous, sweet, sublime timbric colors are just about the best I've ever heard in a long time.

And that's only from the videos!

(I'd just like that on the record should any lawyers wish to quote us here![;)])

cheers,

Ron


we, the foroflamenco community, confirm and certify that Ron , Simon and Henry have nothing to do with this discussion.

If you want to file a lawsuit, please do that against me.
If i should be in Iran in vacation, "Amir de Iran" can contact me there.

i recommand GJ Michelob as lawyer by the way. [:D]



kozz -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 11:43:46)

Hahaha Gummy,
hilarious!
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][sm=lol.gif]



XXX -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 11:47:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

@deniz,

the point is, that those are not fair "guitar testing videos". just hidden advertising for a single brand, by badmouthing all the others.

how come that there is not one single other guitar in the 15 videos (except Andalusian Guitars) which is not somehow crap in the eyes of the professor ?

and who said that wrong distances are not a defect?
of course those are defects. like some other defects which he mentioned.

but what Prof. is implying, is that most guitars out there have all these defects (except his guitars of course) this is simply not true. most expensive guitars don't have such defects. even many cheap guitars don't have such defects. i just measured all these details on my guitars (different price classes). all perfect.

regarding other brands: i think we had about 1000 threads regarding the business policy of Conde for instance.
I guess 50% or more of the people here in the foro hate Conde because of that reason, for instance. and thats ok.
we can discuss it. i experienced that first-hand.

So it is not hyprcrite if we also have one thread for Andalusian Guitars!
specially considering all the other things happened in the past.

oh and no other brand made such videos like Prof.

and regarding "good teacher": well, maybe you don't care about the person behind lessons, as long as he plays good and as long as you can suck some info and some falsetas out of his videos, etc.

i simply can't even watch this guy anymore after all the BS he talked here and elsewhere about many people, from which some of them are helping us here in the foro since YEARS for free.

and this amir guy was simply the icing on the cake.



You definitely have some valid points. I dont like the badmouthing about other guitars too. But really, you have EARS you can just watch the video and judge YOURSELF. Dont have to believe anything he says there.
I dont care too much about this subject, but i just think that its not that black and white. Even if i seem to be the only one who thinks like that here [8D]



Escribano -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 11:55:25)

quote:

Feel free to state your OPINIONS on the internet. This thread is more funny than Fakemenco™


Nope and I would appreciate you not lending duff legal advice [:D]

quote:

This legal guide is based on the laws in the United States, where there is a strong constitutional protection for speech


However, this forum is based in England. Best that all such posts, from now on, start with the prefix "In my opinion...." [8|]



JasonMcGuire -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 11:56:38)

In my opinion.

Be safe..... use a condom.



Arash -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 12:03:44)

yes deniz, but there are many people out there with absolutely no experience in selecting flamenco guitars, and those are the "victims".
not you or someone else who has experience.

anyways, i am starting to think that this whole discussion about Ruben, Andalusian Guitars, etc. achieved nothing except some kind of negative vibe in the community. maybe also my fault to even start such a thread. don't know. we had a nice time in the foro until recent events (like the australian seller of andalusian guitars), and that thread forced me to post this, etc.....

i had completely forgot about Ruben and his guitars since then.

its time to forget about him again i guess



richard -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 12:04:25)

quote:

we, the foroflamenco community, confirm and certify that Ron , Simon and Henry have nothing to do with this discussion.

If you want to file a lawsuit, please do that against me.
If i should be in Iran in vacation, "Amir de Iran" can contact me there.

i recommand GJ Michelob as lawyer by the way.



Good idea, lets all send GJ $3 for the legal defense fund.....

richard



kozz -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 12:04:53)

quote:

However, this forum is based in England. Best that all such posts, from now on, start with the prefix "In my opinion...."


Hahaha,
so if we post the comments as a picture, than it falls under the US law, as the database is running overthere? [8|]



Escribano -> RE: who is behind "Andalusian Guitars" ? (Feb. 6 2010 12:07:04)

quote:

Can we have it on the record here (for possible legal reasons) that both Simon and I and Henry think that Andalusian Guitars are the very best that have ever been made in the whole History of Flamenco guitars.


Yep, I would have to agree. But what do I know about the process of making a flamenco guitar or flamenco or Andalucía or even Mexico come to that? Nada, ... que pinche güey soy [:D]



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