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Hey Per, am I correct to notice you've put a headstock veneer on the BACK of that guitar head aswell as the front? I thought I was the only one who did that! It covers the scarf joint nicely, I find...
Jb
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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
Come on guys. Ok, he his not the best. So what? Is Miguel Ochando the best? What does a "good flamenco player" mean? The one who can play the scales faster? The one who plays hard to play pieces? What has flamenco to do with playing fast or difficult pieces?
Ok, JM is a good businessman and a self-proclaimed figure. So what? Most of those who you refer to as "monster guitarists", that I've met didn't even have an acceptable level of social behavior, but hey who cares? I can still enjoy their music and use their instructional material.
Of course he is no king, but he is a fine musician and teacher.
Come on guys. Ok, he his not the best. So what? Is Miguel Ochando the best? What does a "good flamenco player" mean? The one who can play the scales faster? The one who plays hard to play pieces? What has flamenco to do with playing fast or difficult pieces?
Playing faster ? Difficult pieces ?
If that's the only difference you hear between the two then I'll rest my case.
I do believe however that if one is to criticize anyone, be it their technique,style, "purismo" or "apariencia", we ought be certain that we are, perhaps, as good if not better than the one being criticized. I for one, do not do so as doing so will be a sign of my "naivete" (IMHO!).
I dont agree. Many of us here are not as good as Juan. Yet we can critisize him or anyone else, even much better guitarists.
An Example: we have some very good guitarists here like Ricardo, Todd, etc.
If one of them would upload a video which i dont like or which i find could be better, i can say that without feeling bad and they are much much better guitar players than i am. If i should see a mistake, i can say that (even though i am not able to play like them)
I personally would also critisize Paco if i see a concert where he doesnt play as good as i expect from him as a Maestro.
ORIGINAL: Taranto Come on koells, no mystifications please. Tell me what's in your heart? What are the other differences?
Well, let me first say I really only know him from this forum. He doesn't mean anything here in Holland. Let alone in Spain.And I read quickly through his method a few years ago. So I don't know him and he doesn't mean anything to me in a flamenco way.
But the video fragments I saw here give me the picture of a cheap spanish-accent-B-actor who stumbles his way through some standard flamenco pieces.
To me he resembles nothing that stands for the flamenco that I humbly are trying to dig a way in.
Of course that doesn't answer your question, but I think most people here know exactly what I mean.
I am a beginner but if I get to the standard where I get so hung up on technique that I can't enjoy a JM performance I will have lost more than I will have gained. Time then to put away the guitar and take up subbuteo fishing.
You are just a beginner, how could you know that for sure??? Sounds like your mind is already made up about your tastes. My advice, especially for beginners, is to keep an open mind. There might be some legit reason why a group of knowleageable aficionados might feel a certain way. But you need to not blindly follow either. Keep an open mind, and let your tastes develop with your knowleadge. No need to dust of the fishing gear just yet!
I think most people here know exactly what I mean.
I got into flamenco about 4 years ago and JM never got on my radar. I have none of his books, DVDs, CDs or MP3s. Never heard him, seen him or read about him, except here.
If he was in any way influential I might have caught him in Spain.... Jerez maybe? So.. there you have it. He didn't play Woodstock or rock the Fillimore, set light to a recording studio with a flame gun, drown in his own vomit, give PdL a headache, take a piss in the Generalife or set fire to a baby.
Learning this stuff is not about sticking to what you know - although I still stick to El Capullo (Anders)
Let me give you guys an honest and simple answer (without any mysthifications) why many of us make fun out of Juan, Ottmar and Co.
When we compare their
1) Playing skills, musical sence, compositions 2) business success 3) Popularity
to other guitarists like Jesus de Rosario, Diego del Morao, Chicuelo, El Viejin, Gerardo Nunez, Juan Diego, Pepe Habichuela, Manolo Franco, Nino de Pura, Nino Josele, Pedro Sierra, and hundreds, yes yes, hundreds of other flamenco guitarists, then we see some big injustice here going on.
Maybe we are prejudiced, but that is because we are musicians with some years of our life spent to understand, learn and appreciate Flamenco music.
So the way we look at Flamenco, is a different way than normal listeners (without any idea about Flamenco) or beginners look at it.
Many of JM and Co. defenders call us jelous and that we begrudge them just because they have success. You can do that. It is your right. But it is far from the truth.
We are just sad that other guitarists which would deserve at least ten times more success and admiritation, dont get it, just because the majority of people are unable to feel and understand the music they way we do.
And believe me, in 4 or 5 years you will understand what i mean.
Taranto he is not a fine musician he is a hack, and after all of his commercial success he does not have the self respect to remedy this. That is probably the most unforgiveable thing about him. He has so little respect for music that he has not done the work that would allow us to forgive him for his good luck in achieving notoriety.
It really is a shame that the media hoodwinks people who have an earnest and heartfelt love of music into accepting the mediocre and being blind to the great.
Your question says it all if you believe that we are judging him in terms of his ability to compete in fast scales then you are blind ...BLIND to the nuances that make music human. Otherwise we could all listen to computers playing midi files.
Think of it like this. There is Jonathan Price reciting shakespeare and then there is Shane Ritchie reciting Shakespeare. Jonathan isn't better because he speaks louder or faster. He is better because his respect for the material has lead him to delve deep into himself to find a way of expressing the MEANING and EMOTION of the text.
This ability lies within us all and any artist with a shread of decency who has success on a public platform would find this if he had any respect for music or for himself.
Listen to Juan and then listen to some early Paco Pena. Then listen again.
and again
and again
and when you know what we are talking about let us know.
Jaun Martin is not a bad player. I came back from Spain a few weeks ago, and was routing through some cassettes, and started listing to a radio 3 live perforamnce he did, god knows how long ago. He played a Tarranto por fandango, which sounded quite good, especially as he was performing it live. Its quite an acheivment to get up on stage an produce the goods without nerves or self doubt kickin in, but I agree he is not in the same leage as Ricardo de la Luna (Jluana). Paco
Can't resist but JM speaks perfect English in his videos (which I use) because he grew up and went to school in England - the accent is not what it seems - this is probably not a revelation but seems toi be overlooked! That's Johnny Martin El Rey. Took my daughter to see him at the Barbican and she loved it - we'd banged in to him in our local supermarket and I said hello - he was charming (with a spanish accent!) - so promised my daughter I'd take her. Great books , great business man, good guitarist, great impressionist from 'bri - ton'
250 miles in fact, and needs an overnight stay, too expensive I'm afraid, but thats not the point is it?
JM is popular and PDL isn't and you afficionados don't get it do you?
I was joking, amigo... I agree that Paco is very inconsiderate when choosing venues to play at outside of Spain. But thats part of the deal of being "The Man"... he can do exactly what he likes.
There's nothing wrong with JM imo. But I do prefer Paco's music.
Jb
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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
We are just sad that other guitarists which would deserve at least ten times more success and admiritation, dont get it, just because the majority of people are unable to feel and understand the music they way we do.
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