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Needles to say; a very very true and good post. If you do not agree with it, or you don't see the "light" in it; I call you; "eeej Juan-Martin-lovah" Bah!
JM is popular and PDL isn't and you afficionados don't get it do you?
PdL not popular, but JM is? Factually incorrect. Records sold-Paco Concert seats sold-Paco Radio Airplay-Paco The only advantage JM has is method books-only because Paco hasn't written one, but if you count other's transciptions of his work, I'd bet it might dwarf the sales of JM's beginner books, even though most cannot play Paco's music. PdL is a genius musician, recognized by musicians and fans all over the world. You are drowning my friend.
The only advantage JM has is method books-only because Paco hasn't written one,
Hey, wouldn't that be just THE BEST tuition method EVER if PDL was to bring one out? I seriously don't know why he hasn't done it already... he would make $$$!!!
Would you pay $50 or even $100 or $200 for a PDL Encuentro book and DVD?!
Jb
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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
The only advantage JM has is method books-only because Paco hasn't written one,
Hey, wouldn't that be just THE BEST tuition method EVER if PDL was to bring one out? I seriously don't know why he hasn't done it already... he would make $$$!!!
Would you pay $50 or even $100 or $200 for a PDL Encuentro book and DVD?!
Jb
I'm not so sure about that. It happens in academia, happens in music, happens anywhere there are virtuosos and teachers: the two don't always overlap. The best at something are very often terrible teachers. PdL is brilliant, sure, but would he be equally gifted at explaining things to students of level X? Maybe, maybe not. Unless you're teaching truly advanced material, I don't think virtuoso-level talent is very necessary, or even relevant, to be a good teacher.
lol and I agree, krichard's statement that Juan Martin is "more popular" than PdL is completely ridiculous. Perhaps in the UK, among people whose only experience of flamenco is the annual Juan Martin concert, obviously Juan Martin would be more popular, and nothing wrong with that, but outside of the UK, and among people in any country who even know a bit of flamenco beyond just a couple of artists, I really don't see how you can say Juan Martin is more popular. I have no problem with JM, I've gotten a lot of good use out of his books, but let's not go overboard here
Would you pay $50 or even $100 or $200 for a PDL Encuentro book and DVD?!
yes, yes i would even though most of it would probably be way to hard illd still like to watch it.
hey simon these juan martin threads really come back to haunt you dont they you should just lock them when nobodys looking when they die off the first time
I think Simon must just be ignoring it and hoping that it will die, but it just keeps kickin'! A three-month JM thread? Must be a rite of passage for foro members to get into a drawn out thread about JM... but if you're starting out, it's Juan's face that greets you in the sheet music section of most shops
ORIGINAL: romerito It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with something, eventually the conversation gets old BUT...it is new for the NEWBIES and that is a good thing. I am glad threads don't just get sent to the bin.
Me too Everyone's got to start somewhere, be it playing or posting to a foro
this JM thred doesnt really have the same flair that others did, it does have its moments tho . Its not a proper juan Martin thread unless the following happens:
1-at least on person spits the dummy and quits the foro, complete with foro suicide note.
2- at two people have an ongoing argument that gets personal and drags on throughout the thred, like an ongoing theme.
3- at least one person is challeneged to learn 'la feria' within three weeks and play it better than JM, then upload it here for us all to hear.
4- it gets so heated that simon has to come and lock the thred.
ORIGINAL: Dominic this JM thred doesnt really have the same flair that others did
Yep, it sounds a bit tame compared to some of those others... And I know you're not a fan of people being all PC, Dom Maybe Simon should put this thread out of its misery?
It's always curious that people are drawn into extremes when it comes to flamenco guitarists. JM is by no means a virtuoso player but his books were the starting point for many players, however he shouldn't be banded about as a great player but rather a flamenco facilitator particularly in beginning to learn compas and accompaniment. As far as PDL being the God - no he ain't folks. The most accomplished guitarist around IMO, although he doesn't seem to be a great self-publicist, is Juan Manuel Canizares. Technically as perfect as you can be plus the most original music and harmony. PDL has provided an incredible catalogue of staple music but, you know, he's churning out the same old stuff in his concerts and, for me, his action is set too low which serves to make picado easier at the expense of quality sound. Brilliant player, obviously, but sounding a bit tired now.
ORIGINAL: romerito For me it is not about best but about who I find most interesting at a particular time. My friends and mentors are often times the most interesting. Canizares gets a vote although his music doesn't always grab me. The Cano Roto school always plays well. So many to choose from.
I would have to agree with that attitude, where you just listen and play without all of the hero worship. There are so many players out there, and it's so hard to choose, and agree. I say without wanting to offend anyone of course, that I think it's all a waste of time (hero worship). And maybe it's an off-hand way to be, but I would have to admit it.
As far as PDL being the God - no he ain't folks. The most accomplished guitarist around IMO, although he doesn't seem to be a great self-publicist, is Juan Manuel Canizares. Technically as perfect as you can be plus the most original music and harmony. PDL has provided an incredible catalogue of staple music but, you know, he's churning out the same old stuff in his concerts and, for me, his action is set too low which serves to make picado easier at the expense of quality sound. Brilliant player, obviously, but sounding a bit tired now.
(catching bait), Nah, Paco has been doing new things for a long time, people just dont' notice the details. Cositas brought out all new music, but most folks only noticed the band line up changes. Even still the music has changed since then if you have seen any recent concerts. Paco very oddly is always coming forth with new material on stage and on CD, despite the amount of years he has been playing and composing. Just about EVERYONE OTHER THAN PACO seems to have settled on their personal style, whatever it may be. Regarding Cañizares, he has some speed, but not as Paco. I saw him mess up picados about 3x as much as Paco in live shows. Then there is his sound which IMO is a fault of his technique, though there may be some that prefer his tone??? and last I saw him mano a mano with a classical guitarist that surprisingly, wiped the floor with him. He tried to show off the same tired picado run up one string, but in the end it was really his tone and in accurate notes that made the classical guy shine above him.
Anyway, just my take on it. Oh yeah Juan martin, not bad for a non spaniard.
there is his sound which IMO is a fault of his technique
lol, first off i dont get into his music that much and i was with you until the quote above the guy is good enough to fix anything in his technique he dosent want there, i think his tone like it or not is more of a personal choice.
I do agree noone is as special as Paco , every album he reinvents himself, that is incrediblle, it takes most guitarists 20 years to come out with one good album and he does it every 3 to 4 years, not to mention the manages to tour, make guests appearances on cds, tv, etc.
Don't know if it means anything, but when Paco himself calls Canizares the best guitarist in Spain in an interview you have to stop and ponder that.
Well Paco said similar things about Riqueni, Nunez, Vicente, etc., in fact thanks to him I did stop to "ponder", in fact I went out and bought all their CDs after reading those comments (since Paco's word is gospel and all). In the end we have our tastes. I think Banderas blows Canizares away interms or sound, technique, musicallity etc. Canizares does have "original" sounding music for sure. Honestly, after my exploring, I think Paco gets very inspired by these guys, more than anything, he wants to take the focus off of himself as "the best". But ask any of them how they feel about Paco saying they are the "best" or even compared with Paco and they all will admit (and have in a lot of cases) that is too strong a comparison. Paco is the jefe.
Honestly I could listen to Canizares for hours. I dont' like to compare guitarist as to who is "better", there is room for all. I am just trying to stir up this thread, as some others were doing.
I'm not desperate for Canizares but he's good. His tone usually has undesirable quality, for me, and he does that obnoxious bending which completely ruins the experience. It would be acceptable in moderation or if used more tastefully, I suppose. As far as his music, I haven't listened hard at it, but I think some of his harmonic ideas are based on nothing too organized... Some of it seems kinda oddball, just doing it to provoke. However, I do like this groove:
Canizares does or used to have an incredible base technique but so do many. I really like the middle guitarist in this video, Jose Carlos Gomez, but it's hard to see him flourish here, except at the end when they do some nice picados together!!
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even though most of it would probably be way to hard illd still like to watch it. 
you should just lock them when nobodys looking when they die off the first time 
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