I need some advice

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I need some advice

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jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

I need some advice

hey everyone
so I have this opportunity to teach a 10week seminar at my school (UCLA) of my choice. Naturally, I decided to instruct a seminar on flamenco. Since I am an Anthropology major, the course shall have a perspective from the aforementioned discipline. Anways, I have to provide a BRIEF 10 week outline of the course, and I am stuck on weeks 8 and 9. I was wondering if anyone could recommended anything for the missing slots. Any other recommendations would be great also, I did type this thing up in about 5 minutes.
And I will have guest musicians throughout the course as well.

by the way, week 6 is going to be my thesis when I pursue my PHD in Anthropology...like an anthropology of music.

Week 1- an introduction to flamenco: a brief history
Week 2- Key musicians of flamenco: the 19th century to present
Week 3- musical structure of specific palos (songs):compas and the interaction between the dancer, singer, and guitarist
Week 4- old vs. modern flamenco (the various cultural influences)
Week 5- Paco de Lucia: his impact on flamenco
Week 6- flamenco and the everyday lives of the musicians (using Durkheim’s argument of how musical events are like a religious experience)
Week 7- the significance of Solea, Alegria, and Buleria
Week 8-
Week 9-
Week 10- where flamenco is today

thanks again!
juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 1:36:44

ykabban

Posts: 251
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

I would include "Duende" somewhere(I'm sure you are), because it can be defined in so many ways. Week 6 seems appropriate for this, but I would put it near the end.
You could talk about "what is not flamenco", Ottmar, Cook, Mariachi etc....
Perhaps talk a little bit about what in flamenco has died. Pose a question- what should change, what has to change and why.......
If you don't devote an entire week to Vicente Amigo I'll take it as a personal insult.
I wrote a stout paper on flamenco in college(Anthropology), really enjoyed it; sounds like a really cool opportunity for ya. Have fun with it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 2:57:19

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: I need some advice (in reply to ykabban)

its funny that you mention the duende aspect, i had that as week 4, but decided i would include it in week 6 (as you said) and i was also going to cover what flamenco is not in week 1, with the introduction.
thanks for the response ykabban, and i will definitely incorporate some of your suggestions

juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 3:06:05

ricecrackerphoto

Posts: 265
Joined: Feb. 5 2006

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

congrats juben! sounds like a fun gig. since i'm in LA also, can i audit the class? also are you gonig to be taking any field trips to some performances in town?

if you want, i can come in and hack through an alegrias during week one to illustrate what is NOT flamenco.

since there are so many great players in town, it would be cool if you could have some of them perform. maybe g.v. rubio could come in on week 8 and deconstruct the flamenco guitar.

doug

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 3:38:40

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

Show a video those two weeks. Rito y Geografia del Cante, select clips depending on class length. Make sure the clips you choose tie in with what you discuss. They now are selling the whole set in reissued box with cleaned up vid and audio with subtitles in English and a book describing all the folks involved in the scenes. Only 130 bucks or so. Essential for aficionados and students IMO. Wish I had found that stuff when I was in college, or it was in the library you know?

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 4:12:52

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

You might do a week on Federico Lorca, his flamenco competition, and his relationship to flamenco.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 7:30:37

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani) 1 votes

Sounds like a occupational therapy. You could let them do some groupwork. Let them do ..maybe some of these mindmaps. 10Weeks flamenco? puuuh... thats much.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 7:57:43

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

sounds like a great course. what about flamenco in literature or film? eg carlos saura etc. also you could look at the popularity of flamenco outside of spain, eg the popularity in japan, and the rise of non-spanish flamenco artists and where this is going, what it means for flamenco? also maybe in an depth look at the gypsies and what it means to 'be' flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 9:18:15

Georg

Posts: 405
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
From: Germany

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

What about the whole percussion thing?

Palmas, cajon, the stick, I think also the tongue and so on.

The Cajon is used more and more in different music styles, but Paco was the one who discovered it and made it known.

Perhaps the imitation of drum roll in the saeta via string crossing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 9:40:27

PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

Your topics are deceiving

that you dedicate one whole day to paco, but not even mention camaron, tells that you are a guitarist! Overall though i think Camaron was the most important artist.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 11:01:55

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

Good musician, but not very representative character...only if you wanna arrange a drug-seminar with the topic. How can I kill myself with drugs on the fastest way.

So sad. He could still live and invent new stuff. How would flamenco-singing be now, if he would live?.... Very different, I think.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 14:24:53

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: I need some advice (in reply to ricecrackerphoto)

doug
you can come in all you want, im just not sure if you can. that is, if UCLA will allow it because it is an undergrad seminar that is taught by undergrads (myself), so i am not sure if the same rules of auditing applies. ill keep you posted once i know

ricardo
i plan on showing many clips that are pertinent to my lectures, but i will definietly check out your recommendations

Miguel
I am going to discuss Lorca in week 2 (so i guess i should change it back to "key persons of flamenco")

Romanza
most the topics that you are proposing i will discuss in week 10 (where flamenco is, how it has expanded outside of spain, and where it may go in the future) but thank you, i will keep in mind the popularity of non-spanish artists

Gux
good idea, i can incorporate some of those percussions into one of the weeks, perhaps in the old vs. modern flamenco

Paco
I chose PDL because 1) i am going into this course with the expectation that my students have little to no background in flamenco 2) since i have such an expectation, i do not think the students could appreciate what camaron did for flamenco, juxtaposed to Paco's contribution, which is easier to demonstrate 3) camaron will be brought up many times (in weeks 2 and 5) 4) once the students learn more about the key players of flamenco and camaron, i hope they will take the initiative to go out by themselves and seek other artists and 5) yes, i am a guitarist
ahaah

thanks guys for taking the time to respond, it means a lot, and its very helpful. please keep em coming!

juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 17:48:06

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

May i suggest starting them softly so u dont lose them, eaze them into it.

the full flamenco cante is too much of a shock to a nonflamencos ears as theyr first view into flamenco.

eaze them into it just like you would a kid that cant swim in a pool for the first time.

I think a good voice that wont scare anyone and it has some modern stuff to create a bridge between what they are used too and what we are used too is Pitingo - Con Habichuelas

track 7. Celos (tangos)

or Ketama

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 18:21:14

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

Actually, it might not be a bad idea to start with Gypsy KIngs or the guitar trio--hear me out. This is the way that most of us got into this whole thing. So in this condensed course, maybe it could be a suitable bridge or opening for your students. Then you can compare and contrast it with the "real thing".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2006 22:13:33

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: I need some advice (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

you know miguel, thats good a point
i think i may do that...

oh yea, i forgot to say:

the course meets once a week for an hour...

thanks again!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2006 5:13:41

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

You play flamenco guitar, no doubt there may be a few others taking the class that do as well. Have a day where they and yourself bring in the guitars for a little live up close demo.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2006 6:25:45

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: I need some advice (in reply to Ricardo)

i plan on having demonstrations during weeks 3 and 7
i hope there are other artists enrolled

from my extensive search, there is little to no guitarists

i believe i found one other flamenco guitarist and 2 "flamingo" guitarists
and some dancers here and there, but i dont think theyre too serious about it

i guess there isnt too much of a flamenco community at UCLA

thanks
juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2006 23:01:32

jrabbani

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: I need some advice (in reply to Ricardo)

ricardo
where did you see the box set? im having a hard time find them in stock. could you recommend a flamenco site that i could buy from?
thanks
juben

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2006 14:55:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I need some advice (in reply to jrabbani)

I got a few of them from flamenco Vive in madrid. Should have gotten the whole set but I was not sure if I could find the NTSC versions. Flamenco Connection now has it. It is PAL only. Not sure why you can't find it elsewhere, perhaps just ask about it because it is a new product as of this summer.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2006 21:57:41