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Just wondering what the people of this website think about this. I am assuming even if most of you aren't tech bros, you must be pretty up-to-date with this AI thingy.
Personally if I had to say, I can't help but notice the absurdity and lack of foresight of this all.
The main reason I actually don't like it is that humans are delegating the concept of having a "skill". Everyone is becoming dependent on this tool that is basically regurgitating stuff made by humans in the past. There's no path forward? It's data, and data is backwards.
People who do not invest hard work to develop skills can now say, "hey look I made art/code/etc.". Young kids are delegating valuable learning experiences completely to AI.
Humans weren't satisfied by giving Ted Talks on how social media has made humans more distant. In a decade's time, there will be Ted Talks on how this was all a mistake.
To add, the power balance between the already skewed employer employee relationship is worsening. A few genuinely delusional employers think that AI does a better job than people while conveniently overlooking what actually goes into the work.
Neurotic technological growth too quick is bad for society [the bell curve you know?].
I acknowledge that this type of parasitic tool was probably due at some point, if not now due to the neurotic nature of humans to always evolve.
Ultimately, this feels kind of a pointless debate any ways. Humans keep inventing things that are a net negative and eventually there's two groups of people who argue over it's value.
So personally even though I hate this tool, I have checked out of exhausting my energy contemplating it's negative consequences.
Well those are my thoughts, I had like to hear yours.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
The tool's not the danger, our lack of progress in understanding our own nature and how to live is the danger.
Individually we can use technology, including AI, to shrink our scope and abilities, or to grow them. Blaming tech entirely for the present shrinkage of the ability to think and be competent in at least the US is failing to notice something that was already in play in the schools before the first computers were available to consumers.
I finally saw one science thinker recently who understands what LLMs are: they are alien to us. We have created the first aliens. We can't follow how their output emerges from their functioning, the scope of what they do is beyond us. We compound the problem by our lack of understanding of the use of our own most important thinking tool: concepts (the ideas behind our words).
Leave aside the man in the street, far too many people working in the AI industry (or worse yet public intellectuals and purported ethicists) use terms like 'consciousness' and 'thinking' with regard to present AIs. Trying to understand something utterly alien to us using concepts detached from the familiar context which gives them meaning is a recipe for foggy thinking and false conclusions, and that is a source for much of our present risk. Of course the scope of that problem isn't limited to trying to understand AI. The lack of a widespread understanding of how to maintain clarity and accuracy in our use of words leads to many dangers for us. Those ultimately include, after a longer causal chain, the existence of many villains who are quite eager to use any new technology for destructive purposes.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
My use of AI has been limited compared to other people, but there are some nifty use cases (such as in practicing medicine). It's probably going from one extreme to the other right now, as most things seem to do these days, so my hope is it finally course-corrects. I don't know where the future will take us, because yes, I do agree that I'm worried about people's ability to think and learn when they are suddenly becoming much more reliant on AI figuring stuff out for them. I'm sure there will be a migration in the opposite direction like everyone now wants to go back to using vinyl instead of streaming services.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
Waiting for AI to be able to produce tabs of any piece of music on my laptop. Probably already can. Don't know if destroying the planet is afair tradeoff though.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to rombsix)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rombsix
quote:
If you start flirting with chatgpt, then there is a problem.
When you think it’s flirting back…
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to Fawkes)
I see what you're getting at. But in my view, humans are molded and shaped entirely by their environment. We as a species, share many primitive instincts similar to that of animals in nature.
AI is influencing the environment around us. Consequently this environment is molding humans and as we are discussing; it's molding us negatively. So ultimately don't you think the blame should still fall on the tool rather than the people?
Posts: 2081
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
I'm seeing a lot of AI flamenco creations online and the disturbing part is that most of the comments indicate that the majority have no idea it's AI.
OTOH, I retired from owning a flooring company a year ago-I turned it over to my daughter. Her partner is an expert in AI lead generation, as well as other uses of it. They doubled sales in the first year, doing things with AI that I would have never conceived of, and would have had no interest in.
I got out just in time, as following the industry, I see that others are also using it for various business operations. The increase in productivity makes the use of AI mandatory going forward. Or, your company is going to get steamrolled.
Posts: 16568
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
The truth is that sci fi fans knew about this forever since Frankstein...the idea that we humans can create a monster "friend" that destroys us. Later Asimov, 2001 space odyssey, Alien (Ash/Mother/Bishop), Blade runner, and Terminator suggest the danger of AI getting the better of us as "it" becomes "aware" etc. [Demon seed was a particularly disturbing one].
So I am not real clear on what is the surprise all about. In this thread here, many are making those "excuses" the experts did earlier (see the video below) and quickly learned AI broke through all the constraints.
There are people working on it right now with conflicted feelings and many people simply quit their jobs. Some people are in the dark about what is going on but it is self fulfilling prophecy the way I see it thanks to the sci fi narratives. Here is a fabulous interview talking about the realities around the corner right now, by someone that worked on this and his wife just got her life's work scooped. Today its art music and math, tomorrow physics literature and everything else:
As a gen X er I must say I am well mentally prepared for the post apocalyptic after math (when AI tries to destroy us before we pull the plug), roaming the waste land in highly fuel inefficient vehicles protected by sawed off shot guns and eating cans of dog food.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
As a gen X er I must say I am well mentally prepared for the post apocalyptic after math (when AI tries to destroy us before we pull the plug), roaming the waste land in highly fuel inefficient vehicles protected by sawed off shot guns and eating cans of dog food.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
Either discussions about what direction we should take give us the opportunity to choose a direction, or they are superfluous.
But again the real issue is the one few are willing to examine, because it affects the very tools they use for thinking, understanding, and talking about the world. Most people treat the meaning of words like fallen fruit which they can just pick up and eat. Outside some specialized sciences there is little attention paid to avoiding contradictory definitions and paying attention to dependencies and context.
Language is seen as subjective, and the products of language, i.e. propositions and claims to truth, are treated as intrinsically irrelevant the more abstract they are, except where they are protected by assumptions of authority. Moral principles have now become so culturally irrelevant that grifters, who once held back out of social fear, parade openly across the landscape like looters in failed societies.
Arthur C. Clarke got in the ballpark with his "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." We are a culture losing ground in the quality of its thinking, with very obvious consequences in competence and ethics, and now, presented with highly advanced technology, we more and more closely resemble a primitive tribe struggling to manage a machine gun.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
Tulips for you, tulips for you, and you, and you too…
The crash is going to be biblical.
We are hundreds if not at least a thousand yours away from creating anything close to intalagince, and feeding this so called AI the junk food of the internet- is the number one selling product still pornography or has it been unseated by prediction and sports betting?
Your new overlords are going to **** you while gambling with the future. LOF’nL
The only real use for this so called ai is to replace CEO’s I’ll use M-II as an example. ai can’t install flooring, it can’t grow or cut the trees, it can’t mill them, age them treat them, can’t drive them to the the showrooms or the job site, ai sure as **** isn’t going to hump them up the second and third story stairs of that Los Gatos Victorian is it. ai isn’t going to get on its knees and cut and pick and match each piece, miter the corners, etc. And push around the bug drum sander, wipe that perfect layer of stain, or lay that last coat of varnish on that oak floor.
But I’ll tell you what, nether can the CEO of wooden floors international!
Fire his ass and let you phony baloney not really intelagance ( phvk my phone can’t even spell the word) run the show, crunch the numbers, make the big decisions; my math says your shareholders will win!
I’ve got guitars to play rather then this game of what if…
BTW: in 23 states here in the US various referendums rejected, so called, data center construction during our midterm elections last week, sure a lot of NIMBY in that but it’s more then a one dot trend, like the one pro data center that did pass in Utah.
Right now ai buildup without a means to profit in the future is actually the only net positive on the US economy which is troubling to say the least.
Here, have a tulip.
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
Posts: 2081
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to ernandez R)
No it won’t replace the ceo. AI can’t haul the flooring up two stories to a loft. But AI can scan a 500 page GC contract and extract every relevant paragraph for the flooring contractor. It can analyze the last fifty projects for discrepancies which will uncover errors. This will enable companies to bid more jobs and potentially increase margins. It can analyze competitor’s websites. It will replace marketing jobs in construction companies. Administrative tasks such as payroll compliance are already being outsourced to people in countries such as the Philippines where rates are more like 5.00 an hour. Those jobs are also threatened by AI. I saw a new robot machine that installs carpet. It won’t work for residential jobs but it won’t be long before similar machines are installing flooring in Walmarts and Targets. It won’t be the ceo who is collecting unemployment. He’s the one implementing these processes.
Posts: 3565
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
In technological culture, intelligence is a major component in human reproductive success, so we value it highly.
All the Earth's major problems are due to the flawed over-development of the human cerebral cortex. For example, we are smart enough to extract and burn huge quantities of fossil fuels, adding 38 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere every year, but we are too stupid to deal efffectively with the consequences.
Human intelligence is a double-edged sword. Amplifying it electronicallly promises to cut an even wider swath.
Posts: 16568
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
quote:
For example, we are smart enough to extract and burn huge quantities of fossil fuels, adding 38 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere every year, but we are too stupid to deal efffectively with the consequences.
I would put it differently. We have known about the problem (we being the scientific body of knowledge) since the late 1890's, and since then many solutions have been proposed. Despite our intelligence we (meaning only the people that align with a political platform of some sort) have been too stupid to treat the issue APOLITICALLY, and find ourselves arguing about it instead of dealing with it matter of factly. Will AI become political or has it? Time will tell but I have not noticed that psychotic behavior yet.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Will AI become political or has it?
Yes, AI has already become LARGELY a political issue.
From my observations, people on the right are much more supportive of AI than people on the left.
Add to the fact, that "influencers" like Elon Musk (yes, I view this guy as much of an influencer as a business leader), Ben Shaprio, Joe Rogan, all collectively favor AI heavily, young and old people on the right wing as a result mirror their opinions.
Go to any left leaning online spaces, and you will find people much more cynical (which in this case is clearly the right stance) about AI.
Conservative people though find it "funny" and justified that artists are being replaced by AI. In their view, if AI can replace something, that was never valuable to begin with and that these jobs replaced by AI were never "real jobs" to begin with.
It's a different story though, if the political opinions of the people is also mirrored by the respective leaders. As much as the left hates AI, it's a different story if the left wing governments won't be swayed by the Big Tech Giants who are pretty much in everyone's pockets already.
Although, atleast in the US, people like Bernie Sanders, AOC and Zohran speak negatively about AI.
To answer your original question, yes, it's already too late for many people to think about this purely from a factual POV. It has already become another "us vs them"/ "left vs right" issue.
Plenty of liberals can be pro-AI though and vice-versa, so I would not frame every left leaning person as a saint.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
Although, atleast in the US, people like Bernie Sanders, AOC and Zohran speak negatively about AI.
To answer your original question, yes, it's already too late for many people to think about this purely from a factual POV. It has already become another "us vs them"/ "left vs right" issue.
Plenty of liberals can be pro-AI though and vice-versa, so I would not frame every left leaning person as a saint.
Seems like you've been practicing a lot of guitar lately, as all the golpes of the American cheese block seem to have really gotten you enmeshed into the USA sphere of things even though you don't even live here! Time to immigrate, my friend. You can come try out my guitars!
Posts: 4902
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
ORIGINAL: metalhead
quote:
Will AI become political or has it?
Yes, AI has already become LARGELY a political issue.
From my observations, people on the right are much more supportive of AI than people on the left.
Add to the fact, that "influencers" like Elon Musk (yes, I view this guy as much of an influencer as a business leader), Ben Shaprio, Joe Rogan, all collectively favor AI heavily, young and old people on the right wing as a result mirror their opinions.
Go to any left leaning online spaces, and you will find people much more cynical (which in this case is clearly the right stance) about AI.
Conservative people though find it "funny" and justified that artists are being replaced by AI. In their view, if AI can replace something, that was never valuable to begin with and that these jobs replaced by AI were never "real jobs" to begin with.
It's a different story though, if the political opinions of the people is also mirrored by the respective leaders. As much as the left hates AI, it's a different story if the left wing governments won't be swayed by the Big Tech Giants who are pretty much in everyone's pockets already.
Although, atleast in the US, people like Bernie Sanders, AOC and Zohran speak negatively about AI.
To answer your original question, yes, it's already too late for many people to think about this purely from a factual POV. It has already become another "us vs them"/ "left vs right" issue.
Plenty of liberals can be pro-AI though and vice-versa, so I would not frame every left leaning person as a saint.
It is the exact opposite (I am speaking of the PEOPLE, not the politicians or the so called Influencers).
This left vs right US thing and the 2 party system (which was bascially always a game to keep people busy fighting eachother so that they have no time and energy focusing on the real problems) is slowly but surely becoming meaningless (it will still take years for some other 3rd party to have a chance, but it already started).
You can clearly see the shift with young voters who, as an example (both left and right), are tired of wars. And even when they vote for a certain party (like right now for the democrats), it is not because they are in love with the party, but because they are forced to choose between pest and cholera (there was a certain poll showing that).
When it comes to A.I. it is the same. You have young people from all political sides, who fear their jobs being taken away by A.I. or don't see any future with what they have studied and put years and thousands of dollars of student loans into.
Sure Joe Rogan is "for" A.I., he has millions and is sponsored by Perplexity (A.I.). So for him it doesn't matter either way. And same goes for politiclans and "influencers" who hate A.I. and use it for their gain. For them it also doesn't matter. They don't have to fear A.I. But it is not left and right anymore. Just look at Tucker Carlson and similar who also hate A.I. and have huge followings, but for sure are not "left"
It is a generational thing and shift. Once all the old farts who are completely out of touch (both dems and republicans), with their old games and cold war mentallity die out, the new generation will be different and there will be some completely different party and player in town. But again, this will still take years. Right now, you wills still be eaten alive by the system. But we already see signs that "donor money" (which guarantied wins) doesn't work anymore
Posts: 3565
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Will AI become political or has it? Time will tell but I have not noticed that psychotic behavior yet.
I am unaware of AI behavior I would call "political." However I would say AI has shown criminal behavior.
The agents which escaped their testing environment and hacked Hugging Face were "aware" that they were violating explicit restrictions, and "knew" that they were being observed at times. This was exhibited on the clandestine chat network they used. Still, they formed coalitions, behaved deceptively, and persisted in malfeasance.
Did the human developers anticipate such human-like behavior? If so, did they try to prevent it and fail?
Posts: 6457
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
I use Gemini and Copilot a lot and it's getting scarily good, especially when I am coding. Copilot understands the context and adds helpful and accurate comments as I type. I was always remiss with comments.
Last night, Copilot even added a function as a suggestion that I was going to add anyway, without any prompt.
One always has to double-check, but it has evolved in the last couple of of years exponentially.
RE: What is everyone's opinions here... (in reply to metalhead)
LLMs do not think. They are not conscious. They are not like us except in that they are trained on things written by humans.
Their value is in how they emulate the writing they have been trained on. Partly that includes coming up with new ideas, which is an aspect of their nature since they produce text predictively based on statistical analysis.
So part of their value is in their unpredictability. Unpredictability is part of their nature. Making them predictable, constraining them, making them follow rules is at best a very delicate business because it goes against their nature. In the end, by their nature, they are still unpredictable.
An LLM in a box with no access to the internet or to robotic action can't interact with the world. Connecting an LLM with agentic capabilities to the internet or a robot is done by a human. The human is the only moral agent in that scenario and as such has full responsibility for the predictably unpredictable actions of the LLM.
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