RE: Solera Flamenca Strings

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Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to machopicasso)

If you play a lot, like every few days your guitar with hard tension strings, it is fine. The string breaks before it hurts the guitar. If you keep your guitar out on a stand to dry out...then the hard tension basses can do some damage over time if you never play the thing. I have seen it happen...but I think it can happen the same with normal tension strings as well. I keep my dads guitar tuned flat because I don’t play it as much as my flamenco guitars, and it stays in the case when I am not playing it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2020 16:17:26

12850bd

Posts: 148
Joined: Nov. 9 2006
From: australia

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to machopicasso)

I agree with what you have said. I have a 1974 blanca conde. It has a scale length of 667mm and I have used both luthier EJ45 and Luthier 30s on it for as long as i can remember. In the early days i used red savarez, To this day ( 46 years ) no issue and the neck is dead straight...If the guitar is well built should be no problem. However if playability is an issue then lighter strings may be a good option.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 22 2020 2:01:48

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to 12850bd)

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Ramzi

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 23 2020 4:07:51

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I keep my dads guitar tuned flat because I don’t play it as much as my flamenco guitars, and it stays in the case when I am not playing it.

How flat do you keep your dad's guitar when it stays in the case?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 24 2020 5:06:32

ddias

Posts: 73
Joined: Apr. 16 2017

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

I'm a fan of Luthier 20's - best strings I've tried so far on my blanca. Went back to a set of D'Addario EJ25C I had lying around in a cupboard and it isn't the same, for me at least.

I ordered a set of the Solera strings - the professional edition. They arrived in 3 days to Germany - I'll string them up my guitar and share my findings when I get a break from the relentless cooking, cleaning (and eating) that Xmas seems to entail...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 25 2020 13:29:26

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to kitarist)

Thanks kitarist. This is really interesting stuff.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2020 16:29:37

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to dartemo1)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dartemo1

Interesting; just have measured Oasis GPX+ normal tension on my guitar, which have been there for about 3 months.
''' Measured Gauge (Stringsbymail)
1st 0.023 0.024
2nd 0.027 0.027
3rd 0.033 0.033

What is surprising, the ultimate tensile strength of nylon is ~12,000 psi. For a 0.024" string it is about 5.4 lbs. How come they are used at tension of 21 lbs?

Sorry for the delay in replying.

I don't know how to explain the apparent discrepancy between UTS and the e-string being used at seemingly 3 times above UTS (highest I've seen on nylon is 15 or so lbs of tension, not 21). The UTS given must be wrong?

As to your measurements, you should compare before and after as measured by you since the listed diameters are just statistical means: the actual string's diameter out of the package can be slightly larger or smaller.

This could explain why on some trebles you do not register a difference between listed diameter and after stabilization at tension.

The other reason is that you might need a micrometer (good to 1/1000 of mm rather than 1/1000 of inch) to get more accurate measurements.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2021 22:15:41

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

I’d be happy if someone tries these strings and shares their opinion but the explanation of Jordi is not convincing (at least with me).
My guess is that Solera just wants to enter the business of the strings for flamenco guitar and a medium tension pack is the best option to start with.
Richard Bruné wrote an unsurpassed paper about the relation between the guitar of Torres and the birth of the flamenco guitar and yet I disagree with the idea that the geometry of the flamenco guitar requires medium tension strings by itself.
It’s just a matter of “pulsacion” aka to compensate the natural stiffness/bounciness of the top with the best strings.
Other than that, the only thing that matters is to discover if the Solera strings are good or not.

Btw Antonio Rey endorses the new Luthier strings. Did somebody tried them?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2021 13:19:52

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Echi)

quote:

My guess is that Solera just wants to enter the business of the strings for flamenco guitar and a medium tension pack is the best option to start with.

Well, given that Solera preferred Luthier strings before makes me “assume” they wouldn’t want to use a string that didn’t sound close as good. But who knows, he sure did rattle off a lot of BS.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2021 16:45:00

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

A good plus with Luthier strings used to be that they were "ready to go" strings with an open tone. Imho D'addario tends to give their best after longer time and have a rounder tone.
I agree that for a shop like that it's best to have a kind of a standard for strings, mics and performers. Yet I'm sure they could have easily replaced their to go choice with Knobloks or a different brand.
Instead Jordi preferred to take contact with a string company and put their name on top of it: Are the Solera strings any good, I don't have a clue.
I suppose they genuinely looked for a good product but I'm not sure they found it.
My point is that strings have a good market and probably offer a good margin otherwise you wouldn't see so many brands around.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2021 19:00:58

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

Just got them and put them on my 93 Devoe blanca. I'll let you guys know whats up.

Here are some specs:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2021 5:50:12

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to mt1007)

Wow, the g-string is thick; also it and the bass-E have basically the same diameter (!) I've never seen this on a set.

Did you get a chance to measure the actual diameters before you put them on?

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2021 7:03:36

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

gauge at zero
6th: 1.02mm
3rd: 1.04mm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2021 17:05:10

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

So after having these strings on for some time, I must be honest. I like them. My review is not to confirm, nor validate their findings/statements this is just my take. The strings once on feel very balanced in tension across all 6 strings. You get a nice bounce on the right hand and a nice flexibility on left. They are very comfortable. The sound is also very in the middle, not too bright nor to warm a very neutral sound like D’addario’s. I think they are very much after the Luthier vibe/sound yet with improvements. The thing I miss and hope they fix or work on in the future is the basses. I appreciate their response, flexibility and tension yet I miss the sound/punch a heavier, thicker wound string can provide. I can't remember how thick Luthier basses are but the Solera basses are very similar if memory serves me rihgt. I normally use Philippe Bosset basses for their nice warm strong punchy sound. I also use Savarez Cantiga but I think they are more expensive than Bosset basses. I don’t know what stringsbymail.com will charge once they start to distribute, if they are affordable and priced better than Knoblach I for sure would recommend.

peace....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2021 21:16:14

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to mt1007)

Thanks for the review, mt!

Did you order them directly from Solera in Spain?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2021 22:54:43

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

direct from Spain homie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2021 6:49:38

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

String Tension formulae (RE: Solera ... (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

the tension is a theoretical number based on a calculation of variables.

[..]
The formula itself is an accurate calculation of the tension (as long as we use the proper stretched-and-stabilized-string diameter): if we somehow measure that real tension directly with some contraption, it would be the same as what we calculated with the formula.
[..]
I'll post about the formula in a day or two; I want to first figure out how the different formulations floating around are related to one another so I can explain it clearly.

Sorry about the delay.
(In the equations below, the first number is just an equation number and not part of the formula; also, please ignore the over-expaining in places as I wrote this up first to reply in another forum).

Density is mass per unit volume (so 'density' is typically short for 'volume density'; in physics usually denoted by Greek letter ρ (rho)).

UW in D'Addario's formula, what they call 'Unit Weight', is a mass per unit length, i.e. linear density. In physics it would be typically denoted by the Greek letter μ (mu).

The two are related - and in the case of a string with diameter d, the relationship looks like this:

(1) μ = (π/4) * (d^2) * ρ

i.e. just considering the string as a cylinder with cross-sectional area A = (π/4) * (d^2).

It just so happens that the squared velocity v^2 of a wave on a string of diameter d, density ρ, and thus linear density μ = (π/4) * (d^2) * ρ, with the string under tension T, is

(2) v^2 = T/μ

On the other hand, any wave velocity is related to its frequency f and wave period λ (Greek lambda) by v = f * λ. For a wave on a guitar string the wave period is twice the guitar scale length L, so

(3) v = 2 * f * L

From eqs. (1), (2) and (3) it follows that the tension T can be expressed as:

(4) T = 4 * μ * (f^2) * (L^2) , and also as:

(5) T = π * ρ * (d^2) * (f^2) * (L^2)

The tension formulae (4) and (5) would give you tension force in Newtons, i.e. [ kg*m/(s^2) ] (kilograms*meters/seconds_squared), and expect to be fed L and d in meters, and densities in kg/(m^3) for ρ or kg/m for μ.

That's it.

From here on all the apparent differences in formulae seen floating on the internets are due to using different units for tension, length (affects L and d) and densities (people use different units for convenience or out of previous practices), and to absorbing the π or 4 into the resultant combined unit-conversion factor.

Case A: Mimmo's (Aquilla) equation for string tension gives tension T in kg force instead of Newtons; expects diameter to be entered in mm (not meters), and expects density to be entered in grams/(cm^3), not kg/(m^3). We will use the tension equation in its form (5) as the starting point.

Accounting for these changes in units and absorbing the π means that the right-hand side in eq. (5) (without showing π) has to be divided by

(1000/π) * 9.80665 = 3121.6 approximately, where 9.80665 is an average Earth acceleration due to gravity.

Thus equation (5) becomes:

(5.1) T = ρ * (d^2) * (f^2) * (L^2) / 3121.6

which is essentially Mimmo's equation except for rounding the unit-conversion factor to the nearest integer.

Case B: In contrast, D'Addario's equation gives you tension T in lbf (pounds force) and expects linear density entered in lb/in and scale length in inches. We will use the tension equation in its form (4) as the starting point.

This little table shows you why the change in tension units from N to lbf means dividing eq. (4) by approx. 4.45 and the change in length units from meters to inches means dividing (4) by approx. 39.37; the two combined mean dividing eq. (4) by 386.1:

Thus equation (4) becomes:

(4.1) T = 4 * μ * (f^2) * (L^2) / 386.1

which is essentially D'Addario's equation except for a small correction of the actual factor - it is 386.1; not 386.4.

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Attachment (1)

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 3 2021 21:03:13

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

Hello. I think that you must have already noticed that Solera strings are on strings by mail too. I noticed the time I saw Luthier too the other day. A bit expensive though. Luciano Ghosn also endorses them now along with Jeronimo Maya and many others, most of them having played on solera's videos in the past, so it seems reasonable they were among the first to be given some to try.

I ordered Luthier 20's and Solera concert to compare but it will take some time until they come to Greece from strings by mail. Very funny I ordered 3 sets of strings that are made in Europe, where I live, from the United States. I got Luthier 20, Solera concert medium and Dogal diamante regular. I hope those strings will not be too tired from travelling back and forth to get here.

There was also a very interesting post from Aquila's owner Mimmo saying the exact plants that make nylon and fluorocarbon in the world and the exact tension the companies can order from them. I assume most people here know of these, but if anyone is interested I could repost his comment here on a relative thread (I am not sure which?).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2021 16:54:55

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to AndresK)

quote:

Very funny I ordered 3 sets of strings that are made in Europe, where I live, from the United States.

I ordered a CD on Amazon marketplace in the UK. It came from Japan. On the disc it said, "made in the EU".

we live in a very crazy world.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2021 21:00:11

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

Here is Luciano trying solera's strings.

edit: further opinion on the solera strings by Luciano Ghosn:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2021 8:54:41

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to AndresK)

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Ramzi

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2021 4:51:55

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to rombsix)

Solera should send Ricardo some strings too

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2021 21:23:32

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

Solera should send Ricardo some strings too

Only if he agrees to say they're da bomb.

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Ramzi

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2021 21:42:28

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to machopicasso)

I used Savarez "fort tirant" 520R Red Cards on my Arcangel Fernandez blanca for nearly 20 years. When Richard Brune appraised it he commented that it had a thin top.

With the Red Cards the fan braces "printed" behind the bridge after a few years, but I kept using them. When I recently switched to the lower tension Savarez 520B White Cards the printing disappeared. The White Cards feel a little different, but I didn't notice much change in loudness. The tone is a tiny bit warmer.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2021 21:23:48

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

Nope. Sorry. Not for my taste, not that anyone should care in any way for my taste.

Very stable. You can change them right before a concert, if there will be concerts again in the future, and be sure they stay in tune. They are strong and immediate with a very nice neutral flamenco sound.

I took them off in 5 days the first time but kept them to revisit (I always do that to newly tried strings to be sure about their qualities). The second time, they came off in 24 hours. Too hard for my taste, I am not a very strong guy. Got tired even playing piecies usually do not tire me. Soundwise not like Luthiers (the new Luthiers are great, like thge old ones, but I will talk about them in the Luthier post). Maybe closer to the not cristal nylon, somewhere between DAddario, Knobloch SN and maybe Hannabah? I am not really sure what exactly nylon it is.

I tried the concert set. The packaging is a bit "rough". Non airtight, with plain paper envelopes for each string. Not a negative thing for me as I do not care about fancy.

Very proffesional sound and stability of tuning.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2021 18:32:37

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

Some more thoughts on the Solera flamenca strings.

Got them on for the third time after the Dogal 4th started to unwind over the frets.

Third time is a charm? The Solera strings sound very flamenco. You cannot get the sweetness you get from the Luthier 20's out of them, but this is not a bad thing. They are more penetrating than the Luthiers but the basses have less fundamentals than the Luthiers, on my guitar of course. Not as crisp sounding basses as La Bella. To sum up the sound, I cannot fool anyone that my flamenca is a classical with these strings, something that Dogal almost did, convincing someone hearing them.

They are fast too. Very good balance of tension through the strings with great rebound for the right hand. Maybe this is because of the slightly higher tension I feel or the equality of tension through the strings, or maybe the diameter? Who knows. To give an example, Savarez new cristal normal tension trebles always feel slower for some reason.

They are holding up very well to.

Not sure I am keeping them forever, but definitely recommended for a try, and I will have one more set in case live performances come back in the future, so I can be heard through the mix.

Cheers!

Edit: I do not understand why my replies in this post say in reply to Ricardo. I do admire him but the reply was intended to the post itself (maybe the author?).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2021 9:18:08

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to AndresK)

quote:

Edit: I do not understand why my replies in this post say in reply to Ricardo. I do admire him but the reply was intended to the post itself (maybe the author?).

My post is the first of the page. You can post reply from page 1 or click top right hand reply button to a different person if it bothers you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2021 19:36:12

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to Ricardo)

It really not bothers me at all. I just thought it might be impolite towards you or the original post, seeming I talk personally for some reason only to you. It was intended to be a joke but it does not sound that well written down I admit.

Thank you for the info maestro Ricardo. I put on again some La Bella 820 basses again today on my blanca and they sound amazing in every aspect (tension, sound, flexibility). I ment to ask you about something, and I will although I feel a bit that it is not right towards this post and solera flameca. If you also think this is the case please let me know so I can delete this and repost my question on another thread.

So, I have used the La Bella 427 and they are very good. I tried the 820b on the same guitar and the trebles were extremely bad, life muffed. I have used the reds 820 many years ago on another guitar I had they sounded nothing like muffed. Do you think it is the extra color layer or just a bad set? On this guitar D'Addario EJ45 sound very sharp and strong but for some reason I like La Bella as a brand since I was young and I always come back to try again their sets.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2021 20:11:37

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to AndresK)

quote:

Maybe this is because of the slightly higher tension I feel or the equality of tension through the strings, or maybe the diameter?

Andres, thanks for the review. I need to try a set. Would you say the Solera Concert feels like a harder tension then Luthier 20’s?

I really like La Bella 427’s. Compared to 820B, I think they are slightly less stiff (by .001 inch diameter). Only think is the La Bella basses don’t last as long but they are less expensive.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 2 2021 15:34:11

AndresK

Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Solera Flamenca Strings (in reply to JasonM)

Yes, they are stiffer, to my hands at least. I put both sets on and off, on the same day and really felt the difference. When I ordered both I thought they would be very close but they are not. Completely different trebles and basses. The Luthier have more bass but the solera project better on the trebles. But yes, solera feel stiffer and firmer than the Luthier 20's and of course harder than the 427 that feel very comfortable to my guitar.

I also feel the 820 are a bit harder than the 427. edit: the 427 are closer to the La Bella low tension chart regarding their diameter.

Here is a video of NOT flamenco music that I play the solera strings. You can clearly see that all the mistakes and not properly pressed notes are because of the solera's strings stiffness.

Yeah, alright, anyway.