Cedar & Coral

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Cedar & Coral

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tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

Cedar & Coral

Hola,

I've had a hankering for a cedar topped guitar for a while and I was wondering if Coral would be a suitable choice for the back and sides? I have a vague suspicion Cedar/Coral would make a good combination.

I did a search on the forum and I came across a guitar Anders built a while back of a Cedar/Coral negra a while and there's some interesting info in there and I'm interested if anyone has had some more experience since the thread from a while back. Has anyone tried such a Cedar/Coral guitar?

Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2015 20:17:14

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

I find that you put to much emphasis in what the wood does to a guitars sound. It would be better to look more on the hands working the wood. Thats where things happen. That said, Padauk is a good tonewood in the right hands and with whatever soundboard.
I´m not going to say that its better or worse than other woods, because I´m not so much of a "woody" type, but more of a "worky" type.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2015 9:02:03

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

I am going to make one eventually.
The reason I haven't yet is that I'm a little worried that the combination of Cedar and Padauk could be overly nasal. But as per Anders' point there are ways to compensate for that in the building.

If you were able to get it right I think it would make one nasty flamenca ( in a good way)

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2015 13:50:31

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

...and practice cures most tone issues

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2015 13:56:34

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

Thanks for the replies,

You're right Anders, I do wrongly see things from a wood perspective but I agree with you, the hands of the builder are by far the most important aspect to the equation. I have a builder in mind, and I really like the sound of his guitars and I asked the question as quite simply the builder speaks no English, I speak no Spanish and vice versa. Questions concerning the particular subtleties of wood are a little lost in translation.

Thanks for the info Andy, it's good to have your insight. I really liked the sound of your Andaman Padauk negra in the white. It sounds a little different to to your African Padauk negras but nonetheless your Padauk negras are my favourite of your guitars. IMO they seem to really represent your signature sound.

Snr Martins, all the practise in the world will never make me sound like a Morao/Ricardo/any good guitarist....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2015 20:22:10

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

quote:

Snr Martins, all the practise in the world will never make me sound like a Morao/Ricardo/any good guitarist....

It's also about the playing but in this case it's more about building. It's like setting up instruments, the first few times things don't go that well and take lots of time.. after a while you know exactly what/how to do just by looking at the instrument.

I believe good builders can make good instruments out of "normal" wood.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2015 20:29:03

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

Make sure your builder makes good cedar top guitars. Cedar has to be treated its own way and a lot of the badmouthing of the wood is because of badbuilding.

The wood for back and sides is not so important if the builder understands what kind of wood he/she is dealing with.
Padauk is heavy, low damping, high pitch taptone. Just like good Dalberghia Rosewoods.
If its worked like that it will funcion. All of the woods in that category have add their own little touch of sound, but the main "family" root will be there in all of them. Padauk may sound slightly different than Indian Rosewood, but the feel of the guitar is very much the same and the way the soundboard works on that platform is very similar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2015 8:04:52

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks for the replies.

I'm in agreement about the back and sides not being as important as the soundboard. I am concerned by the cedar soundboard mainly I've not heard a guitar by the builder in question with a cedar soundboard, all the ones have been with spruce. I checked and he's made 5 or so cedar negras in the last 18 months or so.

Great job on the cedar negra you made for RM Hubbert Anders. Been listening to a lot of his music over the last year or so.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2015 20:00:51

johnguitar

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 10 2006

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

I agree that back and sides are not so important although they can change the character a little. I also agree with Anders that not everyone knows how to make a good guitar with cedar so be careful. Here is a video of a cedar/coral guitar that I made. I found that cedar and coral worked quite well together. http://palcoprincipal.sapo.pt/bandasMain/pedro_thiago/video/83_HgqFj0Y0

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John Ray
https://www.johnguitar.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2015 11:50:00

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to johnguitar)

Thanks for the reply John and for the tips about cedar as a soundboard to find someone who is proficient using it.

That's a really beautiful sounding guitar. Superb separation and clarity, and a richness in the basses.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2015 20:19:54

Gildeavalle

Posts: 47
Joined: Oct. 26 2012
From: Granada

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

The hands of the maker is a very important factor but the wood: curation, cut, harmonic quality and the quality of the wood itself is a high percentage of the final result. From my point of view as a guitar constructor, I agree that coral gives a crystal sound as a result, even if the sound board is the more important part. For a classical guitar, I would never use it for a long-lasting concert guitar. For flamenco I actually use it but just as an ornament (coral is very much associated with flamenco). Another drawback is that it cracks more easily than other more stable woods. See picture: https://gildeavalle.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/blanca-coral-guitar-guitarra-blanca-coral.jpg?w=656

Anyway that's my particular point of view. Antonio de Torres and other guitar makers through the centuris used all types of woods depending on their avaibility, but guitars for virtuosos and concert people were not made of coral or mahogany: https://gildeavalle.wordpress.com/2015/05/20/antonio-de-torres-guitar/.

I think a good guitar constructor makes a wood sound from everything, but building a concert guitar is another question.

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Daniel Gil de Avalle Guitar Maker/Luthier:
Classical, Flamenco & Historic Guitars
http://www.gildeavalle.wordpress.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2015 16:12:45

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to Gildeavalle)

quote:

https://gildeavalle.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/blanca-coral-guitar-guitarra-blanca-coral.jpg?w=656

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gildeavalle

The hands of the maker is a very important factor but the wood: curation, cut, harmonic quality and the quality of the wood itself is a high percentage of the final result. From my point of view as a guitar constructor, I agree that coral gives a crystal sound as a result, even if the sound board is the more important part.

Thanks for the reply and for the information.

Since I first posted this thread I have taken delivery of a Cedar/Coral flamenco guitar.

I have a Cedar/Cypress flamenco guitar and I think the Coral in some ways makes a guitar which is quite similar but is less dry than cypress, with a bit more presence in the bass and treble.

I hadn't played a Coral flamenco before hand, I'd played a few steel string with Padauk back and sides, which were a bit on the bright side of things for my liking but with my Cedar/Coral flamenco, I couldn't be happier.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2015 18:12:48

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I find that you put to much emphasis in what the wood does to a guitars sound. It would be better to look more on the hands working the wood.

Well said, Anders. I agree.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2015 0:44:06

Gildeavalle

Posts: 47
Joined: Oct. 26 2012
From: Granada

RE: Cedar & Coral (in reply to tijeretamiel)

Please, tijeretamiel, keep me inform about the result: evolution of your guitar and evolution of its architecture. What's your feeling about it?

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Daniel Gil de Avalle Guitar Maker/Luthier:
Classical, Flamenco & Historic Guitars
http://www.gildeavalle.wordpress.com
https://www.facebook.com/guitarrasdegranada

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 14 2015 15:31:55