Cedar & Coral (Full Version)

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tijeretamiel -> Cedar & Coral (Feb. 26 2015 20:17:14)

Hola,

I've had a hankering for a cedar topped guitar for a while and I was wondering if Coral would be a suitable choice for the back and sides? I have a vague suspicion Cedar/Coral would make a good combination.

I did a search on the forum and I came across a guitar Anders built a while back of a Cedar/Coral negra a while and there's some interesting info in there and I'm interested if anyone has had some more experience since the thread from a while back. Has anyone tried such a Cedar/Coral guitar?

Thanks.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Feb. 27 2015 9:02:03)

I find that you put to much emphasis in what the wood does to a guitars sound. It would be better to look more on the hands working the wood. Thats where things happen. That said, Padauk is a good tonewood in the right hands and with whatever soundboard.
I´m not going to say that its better or worse than other woods, because I´m not so much of a "woody" type, but more of a "worky" type.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Feb. 28 2015 13:50:31)

I am going to make one eventually.
The reason I haven't yet is that I'm a little worried that the combination of Cedar and Padauk could be overly nasal. But as per Anders' point there are ways to compensate for that in the building.

If you were able to get it right I think it would make one nasty flamenca ( in a good way) [:)]



Sr. Martins -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Feb. 28 2015 13:56:34)

...and practice cures most tone issues [8D]



tijeretamiel -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Mar. 1 2015 20:22:10)

Thanks for the replies,

You're right Anders, I do wrongly see things from a wood perspective but I agree with you, the hands of the builder are by far the most important aspect to the equation. I have a builder in mind, and I really like the sound of his guitars and I asked the question as quite simply the builder speaks no English, I speak no Spanish and vice versa. Questions concerning the particular subtleties of wood are a little lost in translation.

Thanks for the info Andy, it's good to have your insight. I really liked the sound of your Andaman Padauk negra in the white. It sounds a little different to to your African Padauk negras but nonetheless your Padauk negras are my favourite of your guitars. IMO they seem to really represent your signature sound.

Snr Martins, all the practise in the world will never make me sound like a Morao/Ricardo/any good guitarist....



Sr. Martins -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Mar. 1 2015 20:29:03)

quote:

Snr Martins, all the practise in the world will never make me sound like a Morao/Ricardo/any good guitarist....


It's also about the playing but in this case it's more about building. It's like setting up instruments, the first few times things don't go that well and take lots of time.. after a while you know exactly what/how to do just by looking at the instrument.

I believe good builders can make good instruments out of "normal" wood.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Mar. 2 2015 8:04:52)

Make sure your builder makes good cedar top guitars. Cedar has to be treated its own way and a lot of the badmouthing of the wood is because of badbuilding.

The wood for back and sides is not so important if the builder understands what kind of wood he/she is dealing with.
Padauk is heavy, low damping, high pitch taptone. Just like good Dalberghia Rosewoods.
If its worked like that it will funcion. All of the woods in that category have add their own little touch of sound, but the main "family" root will be there in all of them. Padauk may sound slightly different than Indian Rosewood, but the feel of the guitar is very much the same and the way the soundboard works on that platform is very similar.



tijeretamiel -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Mar. 2 2015 20:00:51)

Thanks for the replies.

I'm in agreement about the back and sides not being as important as the soundboard. I am concerned by the cedar soundboard mainly I've not heard a guitar by the builder in question with a cedar soundboard, all the ones have been with spruce. I checked and he's made 5 or so cedar negras in the last 18 months or so.

Great job on the cedar negra you made for RM Hubbert Anders. Been listening to a lot of his music over the last year or so.



johnguitar -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Mar. 3 2015 11:50:00)

I agree that back and sides are not so important although they can change the character a little. I also agree with Anders that not everyone knows how to make a good guitar with cedar so be careful. Here is a video of a cedar/coral guitar that I made. I found that cedar and coral worked quite well together. http://palcoprincipal.sapo.pt/bandasMain/pedro_thiago/video/83_HgqFj0Y0



tijeretamiel -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Mar. 3 2015 20:19:54)

Thanks for the reply John and for the tips about cedar as a soundboard to find someone who is proficient using it.

That's a really beautiful sounding guitar. Superb separation and clarity, and a richness in the basses.



Gildeavalle -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Dec. 12 2015 16:12:45)

The hands of the maker is a very important factor but the wood: curation, cut, harmonic quality and the quality of the wood itself is a high percentage of the final result. From my point of view as a guitar constructor, I agree that coral gives a crystal sound as a result, even if the sound board is the more important part. For a classical guitar, I would never use it for a long-lasting concert guitar. For flamenco I actually use it but just as an ornament (coral is very much associated with flamenco). Another drawback is that it cracks more easily than other more stable woods. See picture: https://gildeavalle.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/blanca-coral-guitar-guitarra-blanca-coral.jpg?w=656

Anyway that's my particular point of view. Antonio de Torres and other guitar makers through the centuris used all types of woods depending on their avaibility, but guitars for virtuosos and concert people were not made of coral or mahogany: https://gildeavalle.wordpress.com/2015/05/20/antonio-de-torres-guitar/.

I think a good guitar constructor makes a wood sound from everything, but building a concert guitar is another question.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



tijeretamiel -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Dec. 12 2015 18:12:48)

quote:

https://gildeavalle.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/blanca-coral-guitar-guitarra-blanca-coral.jpg?w=656

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gildeavalle

The hands of the maker is a very important factor but the wood: curation, cut, harmonic quality and the quality of the wood itself is a high percentage of the final result. From my point of view as a guitar constructor, I agree that coral gives a crystal sound as a result, even if the sound board is the more important part.


Thanks for the reply and for the information.

Since I first posted this thread I have taken delivery of a Cedar/Coral flamenco guitar.

I have a Cedar/Cypress flamenco guitar and I think the Coral in some ways makes a guitar which is quite similar but is less dry than cypress, with a bit more presence in the bass and treble.

I hadn't played a Coral flamenco before hand, I'd played a few steel string with Padauk back and sides, which were a bit on the bright side of things for my liking but with my Cedar/Coral flamenco, I couldn't be happier.



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Dec. 13 2015 0:44:06)

quote:

I find that you put to much emphasis in what the wood does to a guitars sound. It would be better to look more on the hands working the wood.


Well said, Anders. I agree.



Gildeavalle -> RE: Cedar & Coral (Dec. 14 2015 15:31:55)

Please, tijeretamiel, keep me inform about the result: evolution of your guitar and evolution of its architecture. What's your feeling about it?



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