Rasgueo de Abanico

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Rasgueo de Abanico

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gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

Rasgueo de Abanico

I suddenly stuck with my abanico.

I wanted to end my tango but i realize that my wrist doesnt have the right move. I often use p, m+a, p etc technique.

Do you have any tip to start exercise to loose my wrist and stop thinking when am i going to "dive" to strings so not to lose the rythm?

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2011 22:33:18

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

Damn,..I had a good instructional video of Rafael Cortes showing exactly that.. Its in Germany right now.. sorry. If you could wait.... I´ll upload that.

He explained that to do wide circles with the entire hand and then he moved faster and faster and this wide circle became smaller and smaller. In the end only the wrist was circling, not the arm anymore. It could be helpful to see that..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2011 22:43:21

Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

with abanico make shure to have the right thumb nail shape to not get stuck on the the strings when going down with p.
make sure the last p up is strong.
and practice the abanico wrist move as much as you can, even without guitar. everywhere

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2011 22:44:18

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Damn,..I had a good instructional video of Rafael Cortes showing exactly that.. Its in Germany right now.. sorry. If you could wait.... I´ll upload that.

He explained that to do wide circles with the entire hand and then he moved faster and faster and this wide circle became smaller and smaller. In the end only the wrist was circling, not the arm anymore. It could be helpful to see that..

Waiting for the video...

Thanks a lot for your help guys...

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 15 2011 22:50:25

rombsix

Posts: 7815
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 0:21:38

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to rombsix)

Thanks Ramzi. Very useful! Even if i dont understand a word of what you say. But i "understand" them all!

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 0:34:52

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

I am actually working on the P +a+i one, I really need it for Bulerias de Jerez. because i normally do the one you did in 6:34.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 0:35:27

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to kudo)

quote:

I am actually working on the P +a+i one, I really need it for Bulerias de Jerez. because i normally do the one you did in 6:34.

I'll try that too Kudo...

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 0:47:04

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

quote:

I am actually working on the P +a+i one, I really need it for Bulerias de Jerez.

funnily I have this technique very solid I can do it fast and strong
but my abanico is totally sux

btw gounaro as mentioned the thumbnail shape is very important, keep it as short as possible .. because it stuck usually
ole good luck

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 4:31:16

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

actually to be very specific, I do the Juan Marote abanico , which is p+ (ma) +p . the m and a finger sticking together as if they are one finger

. try that!! its much easier, because the pivot rotation point is the index , as if the index stays horizontal parallel to the strings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 12:23:31

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to Elie)

quote:

btw gounaro as mentioned the thumbnail shape is very important, keep it as short as possible .. because it stuck usually
ole good luck

And what about alzapua?

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 12:28:10

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to kudo)

quote:

actually to be very specific, I do the Juan Marote abanico , which is p+ (ma) +p . the m and a finger sticking together as if they are one finger . try that!! its much easier, because the pivot rotation point is the index , as if the index stays horizontal parallel to the strings.

I'm using the same technique Kudo. But i think the solve of the mystery is shoulder. You have to loose your arm circling around and then try reach the strings a little. At the beginning it wont work. But then slowly you'll have results.

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 12:30:12

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

i never noticed the shoulder, I just do it without thinking about it and it just works

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 12:58:25

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to kudo)

quote:

i never noticed the shoulder, I just do it without thinking about it and it just works

I suppose that you end Kudo with your thumb up!

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 13:02:37

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

Try to do it with p-m-p. Not p-ma-p.
m+a makes it slower.

Then try to put the accent on m down for 5 minutes.
Then try to put the accent on p down for 5 minutes
Then try to put the accent on p up for 5 minutes.

Do it really slowly for a week.
After only one week your abanico will be drastically better.
I guarantee with a money back policy

This is one of the most spectacular and easiest techniques around...nothing like picado!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 13:15:29

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to stratos13)

quote:

Try to do it with p-m-p. Not p-ma-p.
m+a makes it slower.

Then try to put the accent on m down for 5 minutes.
Then try to put the accent on p down for 5 minutes
Then try to put the accent on p up for 5 minutes.

Do it really slowly for a week.
After only one week your abanico will be drastically better.
I guarantee with a money back policy

This is one of the most spectacular and easiest techniques around...nothing like picado!

Σ' ευχαριστώ Στράτο!

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 13:35:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

P a i
P ch i
P ch/a i
P m i
P i P
P m P
P a P
P m/a P
P i/m/a P
P i/m/a/ch P

All are called Abanico and have different dynamics depending on how you use em. I use P a i for more subtle dynamics or to target string groups ore really fast triplet bursts. I us P i//m/a P when I want very strong loud strokes across all 6 strings.

Remember also, the technique is based on 3's but you need not play 3 or 6 rhythmic groups you can groups of 4's, you can start or end on any stroke or on off beats, or end off beat etc etc....and not to mention you can separate out the fingers between thumb strokes for different techniques not based on 3's. For example"
P a m i=4's
p a i p down= also 4's
P ch a m i= 5's

Abanico refers to the wrist action to propel the strokes pattern.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 17:14:08

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

P a i
P ch i
P ch/a i
P m i
P i P
P m P
P a P
P m/a P
P i/m/a P
P i/m/a/ch P

All are called Abanico and have different dynamics depending on how you use em. I use P a i for more subtle dynamics or to target string groups ore really fast triplet bursts. I us P i//m/a P when I want very strong loud strokes across all 6 strings.

Remember also, the technique is based on 3's but you need not play 3 or 6 rhythmic groups you can groups of 4's, you can start or end on any stroke or on off beats, or end off beat etc etc....and not to mention you can separate out the fingers between thumb strokes for different techniques not based on 3's. For example"
P i m a=4's
p a i p down= also 4's
P ch a m i= 5's

Abanico refers to the wrist action to propel the strokes pattern.

Ricardo

Ricardo, what do you mean by "ch"? Sorry for my stupid question.

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 17:28:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

chiquito....the pinky, the baby, the extendor, the little finger... Do the math man.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 18:01:17

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

chiquito....the pinky, the baby, the extendor, the little finger... Do the math man.

I'm not using the pinky my friend....

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 18:05:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gounaro

quote:

chiquito....the pinky, the baby, the extendor, the little finger... Do the math man.

I'm not using the pinky man....

No one is saying you HAVE to, I am just showing the variety available.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 18:07:24

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

No one is saying you HAVE to, I am just showing the variety available.

I know that. Just kiddin'...

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Spyros

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2011 18:21:19

dartemo1

Posts: 76
Joined: Apr. 21 2010

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

Hi, I'm reviving this old discussion. I've got comments that while playing fast rasg. abanico (p-ma-p) my "m" and "a" fingers are not straightening at the end of the down stroke, keeping the sound "weak". It looks like in the rombsix video when he plays ~1/64 there is also quite a small extension of "ma". Wondering if you need to get this typical "stretching" fill in the wrist during fast abanico. Thank you.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2015 18:41:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to dartemo1)

Yes...but better to call it making the fingers "stiff" in order to increase the volume because the straight stiff fingers dig in deeper into the strings. Conversly you can do the technique with the fingers bent and relaxed for a much softer dynamic.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2015 6:06:11

dartemo1

Posts: 76
Joined: Apr. 21 2010

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

Thank you Ricardo,

That's were I am right now

https://youtu.be/qjxyRrMsrSI

Dmitri

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2015 16:34:28

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to gounaro)

You have longish finger like me, you may need to pull your hand a bit further away from the strings.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2015 17:39:59

dartemo1

Posts: 76
Joined: Apr. 21 2010

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to Leñador)

Thank you Leñador, I am trying to push my wrist and hand further forward (move the elbow of the side edge of the guitar). However, I am much more comfortable playing picado etc when I am closer to the classical position (forearm on the edge). Moving between these hand positions fast is tricky.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 26 2015 22:50:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to dartemo1)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dartemo1

Thank you Ricardo,

That's were I am right now

https://youtu.be/qjxyRrMsrSI

Dmitri

your problem, first of all, is timing. You are both too heavy with the thumb down stroke, AND holding that "note" too long so you have a gap of time...p(up)-am-P (down)......p-am-P...p-am-P... a gallop rather than a roll of straight rhythm. (.... is a slight pause). To fix this I would try emphasizing other strokes more such as (am) down, (Pdown p up-am....P-p-am....P-p-am)....and then p accent up (am-P-p....am-P-p...am-P-p...etc)....finally smooth it out by doing 4 note rhythm phrases:

p-am-P-p,am-P-p-am,P.....repeat.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2015 15:58:31

dartemo1

Posts: 76
Joined: Apr. 21 2010

RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (in reply to Ricardo)

Ricardo,
Thank you, got it. I also try to accent am-down more with a bit of stretching the fingers and it seems is helping to "prolong" this phase and hopefully makes the rhythm smoother.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2015 2:22:55