Rasgueo de Abanico (Full Version)

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gounaro -> Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 15 2011 22:33:18)

I suddenly stuck with my abanico. [:(] I wanted to end my tango but i realize that my wrist doesnt have the right move. I often use p, m+a, p etc technique.

Do you have any tip to start exercise to loose my wrist and stop thinking when am i going to "dive" to strings so not to lose the rythm?



Doitsujin -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 15 2011 22:43:21)

Damn,..I had a good instructional video of Rafael Cortes showing exactly that.. Its in Germany right now.. sorry. If you could wait.... I´ll upload that.

He explained that to do wide circles with the entire hand and then he moved faster and faster and this wide circle became smaller and smaller. In the end only the wrist was circling, not the arm anymore. It could be helpful to see that..



Rmn -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 15 2011 22:44:18)

with abanico make shure to have the right thumb nail shape to not get stuck on the the strings when going down with p.
make sure the last p up is strong.
and practice the abanico wrist move as much as you can, even without guitar. everywhere



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 15 2011 22:50:25)

quote:

Damn,..I had a good instructional video of Rafael Cortes showing exactly that.. Its in Germany right now.. sorry. If you could wait.... I´ll upload that.

He explained that to do wide circles with the entire hand and then he moved faster and faster and this wide circle became smaller and smaller. In the end only the wrist was circling, not the arm anymore. It could be helpful to see that..


Waiting for the video...

Thanks a lot for your help guys...



rombsix -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 0:21:38)




gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 0:34:52)

Thanks Ramzi. Very useful! Even if i dont understand a word of what you say. But i "understand" them all! [:D]



kudo -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 0:35:27)

I am actually working on the P +a+i one, I really need it for Bulerias de Jerez. because i normally do the one you did in 6:34.



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 0:47:04)

quote:

I am actually working on the P +a+i one, I really need it for Bulerias de Jerez. because i normally do the one you did in 6:34.


I'll try that too Kudo...



Elie -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 4:31:16)

quote:

I am actually working on the P +a+i one, I really need it for Bulerias de Jerez.

funnily I have this technique very solid I can do it fast and strong
but my abanico is totally sux [:D]
btw gounaro as mentioned the thumbnail shape is very important, keep it as short as possible .. because it stuck usually
ole good luck [:)]



kudo -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 12:23:31)

actually to be very specific, I do the Juan Marote abanico , which is p+ (ma) +p . the m and a finger sticking together as if they are one finger [;)] . try that!! its much easier, because the pivot rotation point is the index , as if the index stays horizontal parallel to the strings.



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 12:28:10)

quote:

btw gounaro as mentioned the thumbnail shape is very important, keep it as short as possible .. because it stuck usually
ole good luck


And what about alzapua? [8D]



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 12:30:12)

quote:

actually to be very specific, I do the Juan Marote abanico , which is p+ (ma) +p . the m and a finger sticking together as if they are one finger . try that!! its much easier, because the pivot rotation point is the index , as if the index stays horizontal parallel to the strings.


I'm using the same technique Kudo. But i think the solve of the mystery is shoulder. You have to loose your arm circling around and then try reach the strings a little. At the beginning it wont work. But then slowly you'll have results. [:D]



kudo -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 12:58:25)

i never noticed the shoulder, I just do it without thinking about it and it just works [:D]



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 13:02:37)

quote:

i never noticed the shoulder, I just do it without thinking about it and it just works


I suppose that you end Kudo with your thumb up!



stratos13 -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 13:15:29)

Try to do it with p-m-p. Not p-ma-p.
m+a makes it slower.

Then try to put the accent on m down for 5 minutes.
Then try to put the accent on p down for 5 minutes
Then try to put the accent on p up for 5 minutes.

Do it really slowly for a week.
After only one week your abanico will be drastically better.
I guarantee with a money back policy[:D]

This is one of the most spectacular and easiest techniques around...nothing like picado!



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 13:35:04)

quote:

Try to do it with p-m-p. Not p-ma-p.
m+a makes it slower.

Then try to put the accent on m down for 5 minutes.
Then try to put the accent on p down for 5 minutes
Then try to put the accent on p up for 5 minutes.

Do it really slowly for a week.
After only one week your abanico will be drastically better.
I guarantee with a money back policy

This is one of the most spectacular and easiest techniques around...nothing like picado!



Σ' ευχαριστώ Στράτο!



Ricardo -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 17:14:08)

P a i
P ch i
P ch/a i
P m i
P i P
P m P
P a P
P m/a P
P i/m/a P
P i/m/a/ch P

All are called Abanico and have different dynamics depending on how you use em. I use P a i for more subtle dynamics or to target string groups ore really fast triplet bursts. I us P i//m/a P when I want very strong loud strokes across all 6 strings.

Remember also, the technique is based on 3's but you need not play 3 or 6 rhythmic groups you can groups of 4's, you can start or end on any stroke or on off beats, or end off beat etc etc....and not to mention you can separate out the fingers between thumb strokes for different techniques not based on 3's. For example"
P a m i=4's
p a i p down= also 4's
P ch a m i= 5's

Abanico refers to the wrist action to propel the strokes pattern.

Ricardo



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 17:28:51)

quote:

P a i
P ch i
P ch/a i
P m i
P i P
P m P
P a P
P m/a P
P i/m/a P
P i/m/a/ch P

All are called Abanico and have different dynamics depending on how you use em. I use P a i for more subtle dynamics or to target string groups ore really fast triplet bursts. I us P i//m/a P when I want very strong loud strokes across all 6 strings.

Remember also, the technique is based on 3's but you need not play 3 or 6 rhythmic groups you can groups of 4's, you can start or end on any stroke or on off beats, or end off beat etc etc....and not to mention you can separate out the fingers between thumb strokes for different techniques not based on 3's. For example"
P i m a=4's
p a i p down= also 4's
P ch a m i= 5's

Abanico refers to the wrist action to propel the strokes pattern.

Ricardo



Ricardo, what do you mean by "ch"? Sorry for my stupid question. [8|]



Ricardo -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 18:01:17)

chiquito....the pinky, the baby, the extendor, the little finger... Do the math man.[:D]



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 18:05:46)

quote:

chiquito....the pinky, the baby, the extendor, the little finger... Do the math man.


I'm not using the pinky my friend.... [:D]



Ricardo -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 18:07:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gounaro

quote:

chiquito....the pinky, the baby, the extendor, the little finger... Do the math man.


I'm not using the pinky man.... [:D]

No one is saying you HAVE to, I am just showing the variety available.



gounaro -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Nov. 16 2011 18:21:19)

quote:

No one is saying you HAVE to, I am just showing the variety available.


I know that. Just kiddin'... [8D]



dartemo1 -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Sep. 25 2015 18:41:46)

Hi, I'm reviving this old discussion. I've got comments that while playing fast rasg. abanico (p-ma-p) my "m" and "a" fingers are not straightening at the end of the down stroke, keeping the sound "weak". It looks like in the rombsix video when he plays ~1/64 there is also quite a small extension of "ma". Wondering if you need to get this typical "stretching" fill in the wrist during fast abanico. Thank you.



Ricardo -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Sep. 26 2015 6:06:11)

Yes...but better to call it making the fingers "stiff" in order to increase the volume because the straight stiff fingers dig in deeper into the strings. Conversly you can do the technique with the fingers bent and relaxed for a much softer dynamic.

Ricardo



dartemo1 -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Sep. 26 2015 16:34:28)

Thank you Ricardo,

That's were I am right now

https://youtu.be/qjxyRrMsrSI

Dmitri



Leñador -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Sep. 26 2015 17:39:59)

You have longish finger like me, you may need to pull your hand a bit further away from the strings.



dartemo1 -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Sep. 26 2015 22:50:53)

Thank you Leñador, I am trying to push my wrist and hand further forward (move the elbow of the side edge of the guitar). However, I am much more comfortable playing picado etc when I am closer to the classical position (forearm on the edge). Moving between these hand positions fast is tricky.



Ricardo -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Sep. 27 2015 15:58:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dartemo1

Thank you Ricardo,

That's were I am right now

https://youtu.be/qjxyRrMsrSI

Dmitri



your problem, first of all, is timing. You are both too heavy with the thumb down stroke, AND holding that "note" too long so you have a gap of time...p(up)-am-P (down)......p-am-P...p-am-P... a gallop rather than a roll of straight rhythm. (.... is a slight pause). To fix this I would try emphasizing other strokes more such as (am) down, (Pdown p up-am....P-p-am....P-p-am)....and then p accent up (am-P-p....am-P-p...am-P-p...etc)....finally smooth it out by doing 4 note rhythm phrases:

p-am-P-p,am-P-p-am,P.....repeat.



dartemo1 -> RE: Rasgueo de Abanico (Oct. 2 2015 2:22:55)

Ricardo,
Thank you, got it. I also try to accent am-down more with a bit of stretching the fingers and it seems is helping to "prolong" this phase and hopefully makes the rhythm smoother.



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