Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA
RE: Fretless Flamenco Guitar (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco)
I saw a fretless guitar by German Vazquez Rubio for sale on eBay a few years ago. It was beautiful. I watched the listing for several months, but it didn't sell even after the price was cut. The owner then had frets put on, listed it again, and eventually sold it.
I had an Eighties Ricardo Sanchis Carpio classical that had been modified into a fretless. I eventually sold it because the tecnique was too different from a standard fretted guitar but it was truly an intoxicating instrument. If you find one I suggest that you try it.
Very good stuff. Thanks for sharing. I admit I was a little closed minded when I read the thread title, as the fretless guitars sound too distinctive to my ear probably because of the different transient of the note (like an oud etc.), but actually the guy there was able to use this characteristic very well. His style reminds me a little Myrrdim's. If I had to play a frettless guitar probably I'd go for a Kohno cedar with lowered action: I have an old Kohno which is impressive for the sustain of the note. Maybe, if it was not fretted, the note would grow slowly and more sustained, more like a cello.
In the 90th years there was a Polish or Czech guitar maker of steel string guitars who made a fretless nylon string guitar with a pickup. I had the oppertunity to check it. On such a guitar you have access to all microtonal intervals, but that wasn´t my thing at all. I totally didn´t like it, and I don´t like the guitar in the video above but I agree with Ahmed that it sounds like turkish oud; not really a guitar.
For those who want to enjoy playing fretless with the added bonus of having a different instrument that is easier to control intonation-wise (because of scale lenght), I would recommend getting an electric fretless bass.
It's fun to play, gives you new musical ideas to explore and it's a useful complement to your guitar recordings.
Remember that there's more to bass tone than the flamenco fart on the upper octave.
Is there anything inherent to a fretless guitar that would make it a bad call for flamenco? All I could come up with is that it would make certain things incredibly hard (for instance, I'm pretty sure when I'm holding a barré I move the finger around a bit if there are certain stretches involved, which would slide me out of tune on a fretless). And I seem to recall some players of bowed instruments telling me that chords (pretty much the basis for guitar) are very difficult on their own instruments. It would also affect the sound of any sequence of notes played with the same finger on the same string (but that's overall not all that common). Are there other factors I'm not considering? Maybe having just the finger and no fret would affect sustain? Anyways, just curious.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
I think you pretty much listed all of the major shortcomings. I can't think of anything else but all this is plenty enough to make it impossible to play flamenco (or classical) properly on a fretless guitar.
How about you can’t play ANY FREAKING CHORDS!!!!! The basis of flamenco and the whole point of using a guitar for accompaniment. And one more thing.... NO CHORDS AT ALL!!!!!! And finally, you can’t play chords.
RE: Fretless Flamenco Guitar (in reply to Ricardo)
lol thanks guys. I've never tried a fretless anything so I guess I'm underestimating how hard it is to play chords. And now I know why fretless bass is a thing, and fretless acoustic guitar isn't.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
I really enjoyed this to the point I have a turd guitar with a fretboard about to be fitted and I'm thinking just not put frets on it for the sheer hell of it. (then put the frets on when I have satisfied my urges!!) I also think that it will take some practise to get a feel for the landscape of the board. That said, if they can make chords on a three string viola in Eastern European gypsy music, why not? Ultimately I don't think it will ever replace the trad flamenco guitar as it is so disciplined and as said the barre may prove problematic. I love the oud feel it gives though and well worth a watch. One to bring out half way through a set for a bit of variety?
1) try some open tunings 2) barring works great, vertical placement with A/I/M not so great.... see #1, LOL
also, think of how much of Sabicas etc is single note or double-stop (easy) falsetas above a bassline that's often just alternating A and E string. (either a 4th or a 5th, depending upon who is the tonic)
I think people tend to presume that only a monophonic concept will work with a fretless, but check this folk guy, undoubtedly with some open tuning...
So then, you just need to own about a half-dozen fretless guitars each with their own tuning and with a guitar rack and your armada you are set for a nights show :D great business for the luthiers methinks :D
(or this is where one of Ricardos many roadies tunes his bespoke luthier fretless for him while he plays a fretted song.)
RE: Fretless Flamenco Guitar (in reply to aaron peacock)
I got to play a fretless flamenco guitar a couple months ago owned by Cenk Erdogan.., this guitar https://youtu.be/_CHBZAu5rG4
What surprised me is that even though I had my fingers in the right locations for a chord the intonation was still off. You’ve got to push and pull the strings just right or be spot on in your placement.
Cenk would would move my finger over by just 1mm to fix a note. Amazing how he could know such accuracy.
Printable Version
Seems like a bad angle for rasqueado, though?
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread