RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ****

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XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Maybe a complete 3-4 minute solo covering arpegio, tremolo, picado, continuous ras etc?

I dont think that would work, but thanks for your answer anyway.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2011 18:44:14

changue

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Ron.M)

Great suggestion. It's very much terra incognita for me but so much the better. I'll be very happy to have a go.

CH

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2011 19:09:17

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to changue)

One thing that's very characteristic of Malagueñas is that big continuous rasgueado between the final F to E.
Not that easy to pull off effectively IMO.

I'll be interested to hear how challengers cope.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2011 19:25:58

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

that big continuous rasgueado

OOOhhh thanks a bunch Ron.......no pressure then..............

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2011 19:59:47

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

I think it's a genius idea Ron.. you HAVE to start thinking this way if you ever want to do any accompaniment work (read: be a real Flamenco guitarist). Putting your own stuff together that gets the job done and sets up for the cante/baile is the essence of Flamenco IMO. And in a libre palo I think any beginner can have a shot at this.. like you said it can be 5 seconds.. rasgueado on E, continuous rasg into F, little picado line back to E, done

Many a malagueña has opened pretty much that way.
Or you can make it more complicated but that doesn't necessarily make it better.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2011 20:44:49

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

Here are a couple of ideas if anybody's drawing a blank

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2011 22:11:05

Schalli

Posts: 94
Joined: Sep. 15 2010
From: Mannheim, Germany

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

I would like to enter too.
I do not know much about this palo yet, but i liked the self composed audio of a malaguena someone here in the foro posted few days ago.
If we have to research the material ourselfs, it would be nice to get some more stuff as an orientation. In one of my Flamencobooks /GM i think) its sais malaguenas are played in the compas of the Fandangos, but here i red that its a libre palo, whats right?
I have some serious technical deficits with my arpegio and rasguados and i think a challange is the best place to start working on it.
So i sign in!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2011 22:41:49

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Schalli)

Schalli, malagueña is free-form, however it's related closely to verdiales which is in the compás of fandangos. Malagueñas usually lead into verdiales, although I think if your solo for this challenge led all the way to a solo verdiales, your singer (or in this case, Ron) might just kill you

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2011 22:45:13

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Thanks for the support, Andy.

Your own Malagueña reminded me of just how beautiful this palo is and made me think, "why not?"..

Man, your playing is something else these days.

I think you have the most authentic tone of any non-Spanish player I've ever heard.

No joking.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2011 9:06:47

Schalli

Posts: 94
Joined: Sep. 15 2010
From: Mannheim, Germany

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

Ok! Free form means that i can do with the notes what ever i want, as long as it sounds good? Or cann i even add something oder leave something out, if it sounds better to me?
Is the time running, yet?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2011 10:32:17

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Schalli)

quote:

Ok! Free form means that i can do with the notes what ever i want, as long as it sounds good? Or cann i even add something oder leave something out, if it sounds better to me?

Free form means it has no cyclic beat or rhythm like 4/4 or 6/8 etc etc.

In ALL the palos in Flamenco, including the ones "á compás" (Bulerias, Alegrias etc etc) you can play whatever ideas, tunes or notes you like.. (eg like when Ramzi "Buleria-izes" pop songs etc.)

Whether it's GOOD Flamenco or not, really depends on how others react.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2011 14:03:28

vuduchyld

Posts: 170
Joined: Feb. 20 2011

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Well, hell, detersa1, that was a helluva lot better than anything I'm going to put together in eight weeks! Really well done...thank you for sharing!

But I'll still compile some kind of entry. :(

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2011 14:45:27

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Ron.M)

So how is Compas judged on a free form palo?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2011 23:18:10

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

I think it should be something like "arrangement" instead of compas. Like how well it is put together, communicates Malagueña, and would inspire the singer.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2011 23:26:18

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Wouldn't that be aire?
... I really don't know... is there compas in free form?, I guess not.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 1:24:14

villain

Posts: 82
Joined: Jul. 19 2009
From: Colorado

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

Seems like many are written down in 3/4 or 3/4 and 6/8 and that same book as that one bit of sheet music came from states accents on 3, 6, 9 and 12. I'm thinking stick around that with some room for interpretation? I am going to try and merge a few things I have heard (like andy above, the granados book, some recordings, etc) and see what pops out.
Does seem like judging will be tough though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 2:09:38

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to villain)

quote:

ORIGINAL: villain

Seems like many are written down in 3/4 or 3/4 and 6/8 and that same book as that one bit of sheet music came from states accents on 3, 6, 9 and 12. I'm thinking stick around that with some room for interpretation? I am going to try and merge a few things I have heard (like andy above, the granados book, some recordings, etc) and see what pops out.
Does seem like judging will be tough though.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but malagueña is free-form. It can have sections in compás (and it would be a 3 beat, so as you said, 3,6,9,12), but in general you definitely don't need to stick to that, and to be honest I think you'd be better off not sticking to that. Free form has its own challenges, you shouldn't shy away from them by clinging to compás!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 2:15:37

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

F it all just do 0-30 no categories

Malagueña is a free form palo but the guitar version usually has some sections in 3 beat compas. This is supposed to be an intro for a singer so rhythmic sections are not required IMO. But there are other idiomatic phrases in Malagueña that I would look for to give it the correct aire.

This is what I was told by a knowledgeable aficionado recently:

"In my opinion, malagueñas is the most dynamic of the "free" styles. Of course there are no strict rules, it's art and not science, etc., but there should be a rhythmic undercurrent in the malagueña. Sometimes it seems to disappear, or maybe there will be no trace of the undercurrent in the first part of a composition, but some kind of rhythmic drive should be there."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 2:35:39

Andy Culpepper

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Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

Ron I think you have me confused with Ricardo

You're too kind

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 2:38:01

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

So Ron posted in the challenge thread that compas can be about flow, that makes sense but I will ask again, what does aire mean? I thought that flow would have been part of aire.
I was thinking of judging for this but I would not know how to rate these.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 10:21:27

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

F it all just do 0-30 no categories

I'm with you on that Andy.

Or how's about 15 Technique 15 Aire and try to include everything within these two groups?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 10:52:29

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Or how's about 15 Technique 15 Aire and try to include everything within these two groups?

That makes sense. You could also just leave the original rating 0 to 10 and make it on 20.
One way or another, count me in for my first time judging experience.

By the way Ron I like that I'm the singer and that's what I want approach.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 17:00:46

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to rogeliocan)

quote:

By the way Ron I like that I'm the singer and that's what I want approach.

I think that's the way to see it, rog...

Does the thing inspire you and end in a natural way that just makes easy and inviting for you to begin.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 17:52:03

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to XXX)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 20:37:29

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Are we supposed to include in this the typical malaguena composition (Fast picado, tremolo, crazy rasqueados

Yes and you are also required to include this part from :16 to :25

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 20:49:52

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX)

I think you can delve as deeply into plumbing the depths of the Malagueña as you want to as long as your singer wouldn't get up and leave and/or fall asleep on stage.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2011 20:52:24