RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ****

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 **** (Full Version)

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XXX -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 2 2011 18:44:14)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron.M Maybe a complete 3-4 minute solo covering arpegio, tremolo, picado, continuous ras etc? I dont think that would work, but thanks for your answer anyway.

changue -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 2 2011 19:09:17)
Great suggestion. It's very much terra incognita for me but so much the better. I'll be very happy to have a go. CH

Ron.M -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 2 2011 19:25:58)
One thing that's very characteristic of Malagueñas is that big continuous rasgueado between the final F to E. Not that easy to pull off effectively IMO. I'll be interested to hear how challengers cope. cheers, Ron

El Kiko -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 2 2011 19:59:47)
quote: that big continuous rasgueado OOOhhh thanks a bunch Ron.......no pressure then..............[:@][:@]

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 2 2011 20:44:49)
I think it's a genius idea Ron.. you HAVE to start thinking this way if you ever want to do any accompaniment work (read: be a real Flamenco guitarist). Putting your own stuff together that gets the job done and sets up for the cante/baile is the essence of Flamenco IMO. And in a libre palo I think any beginner can have a shot at this.. like you said it can be 5 seconds.. rasgueado on E, continuous rasg into F, little picado line back to E, done [:D] Many a malagueña has opened pretty much that way. Or you can make it more complicated but that doesn't necessarily make it better.

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 2 2011 22:11:05)
Here are a couple of ideas if anybody's drawing a blank

Schalli -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 2 2011 22:41:49)
I would like to enter too. I do not know much about this palo yet, but i liked the self composed audio of a malaguena someone here in the foro posted few days ago. If we have to research the material ourselfs, it would be nice to get some more stuff as an orientation. In one of my Flamencobooks /GM i think) its sais malaguenas are played in the compas of the Fandangos, but here i red that its a libre palo, whats right? I have some serious technical deficits with my arpegio and rasguados and i think a challange is the best place to start working on it. So i sign in!

Adam -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 2 2011 22:45:13)
Schalli, malagueña is free-form, however it's related closely to verdiales which is in the compás of fandangos. Malagueñas usually lead into verdiales, although I think if your solo for this challenge led all the way to a solo verdiales, your singer (or in this case, Ron) might just kill you [:D]

Ron.M -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 3 2011 9:06:47)
Thanks for the support, Andy. Your own Malagueña reminded me of just how beautiful this palo is and made me think, "why not?".. Man, your playing is something else these days. I think you have the most authentic tone of any non-Spanish player I've ever heard. No joking. cheers, Ron

Schalli -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 3 2011 10:32:17)
Ok! Free form means that i can do with the notes what ever i want, as long as it sounds good? Or cann i even add something oder leave something out, if it sounds better to me? Is the time running, yet?

Ron.M -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 3 2011 14:03:28)
quote: Ok! Free form means that i can do with the notes what ever i want, as long as it sounds good? Or cann i even add something oder leave something out, if it sounds better to me? Free form means it has no cyclic beat or rhythm like 4/4 or 6/8 etc etc. In ALL the palos in Flamenco, including the ones "á compás" (Bulerias, Alegrias etc etc) you can play whatever ideas, tunes or notes you like.. (eg like when Ramzi "Buleria-izes" pop songs etc.) Whether it's GOOD Flamenco or not, really depends on how others react. [:D] cheers, Ron

vuduchyld -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 3 2011 14:45:27)
Well, hell, detersa1, that was a helluva lot better than anything I'm going to put together in eight weeks! Really well done...thank you for sharing! But I'll still compile some kind of entry. :(

rogeliocan -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 3 2011 23:18:10)
So how is Compas judged on a free form palo?

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 3 2011 23:26:18)
I think it should be something like "arrangement" instead of compas. Like how well it is put together, communicates Malagueña, and would inspire the singer.

rogeliocan -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 1:24:14)
Wouldn't that be aire? ... I really don't know... is there compas in free form?, I guess not.

villain -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 2:09:38)
Seems like many are written down in 3/4 or 3/4 and 6/8 and that same book as that one bit of sheet music came from states accents on 3, 6, 9 and 12. I'm thinking stick around that with some room for interpretation? I am going to try and merge a few things I have heard (like andy above, the granados book, some recordings, etc) and see what pops out. Does seem like judging will be tough though.

Adam -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 2:15:37)
quote: ORIGINAL: villain Seems like many are written down in 3/4 or 3/4 and 6/8 and that same book as that one bit of sheet music came from states accents on 3, 6, 9 and 12. I'm thinking stick around that with some room for interpretation? I am going to try and merge a few things I have heard (like andy above, the granados book, some recordings, etc) and see what pops out. Does seem like judging will be tough though. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but malagueña is free-form. It can have sections in compás (and it would be a 3 beat, so as you said, 3,6,9,12), but in general you definitely don't need to stick to that, and to be honest I think you'd be better off not sticking to that. Free form has its own challenges, you shouldn't shy away from them by clinging to compás!

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 2:35:39)
F it all just do 0-30 no categories[:D] Malagueña is a free form palo but the guitar version usually has some sections in 3 beat compas. This is supposed to be an intro for a singer so rhythmic sections are not required IMO. But there are other idiomatic phrases in Malagueña that I would look for to give it the correct aire. This is what I was told by a knowledgeable aficionado recently: "In my opinion, malagueñas is the most dynamic of the "free" styles. Of course there are no strict rules, it's art and not science, etc., but there should be a rhythmic undercurrent in the malagueña. Sometimes it seems to disappear, or maybe there will be no trace of the undercurrent in the first part of a composition, but some kind of rhythmic drive should be there."

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 2:38:01)
Ron I think you have me confused with Ricardo [;)] You're too kind

rogeliocan -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 10:21:27)
So Ron posted in the challenge thread that compas can be about flow, that makes sense but I will ask again, what does aire mean? I thought that flow would have been part of aire. I was thinking of judging for this but I would not know how to rate these.

Ron.M -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 10:52:29)
quote: F it all just do 0-30 no categories I'm with you on that Andy. Or how's about 15 Technique 15 Aire and try to include everything within these two groups? cheers, Ron

rogeliocan -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 17:00:46)
quote: Or how's about 15 Technique 15 Aire and try to include everything within these two groups? That makes sense. You could also just leave the original rating 0 to 10 and make it on 20. One way or another, count me in for my first time judging experience. By the way Ron I like that I'm the singer and that's what I want approach.

Ron.M -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 17:52:03)
quote: By the way Ron I like that I'm the singer and that's what I want approach. I think that's the way to see it, rog... Does the thing inspire you and end in a natural way that just makes easy and inviting for you to begin. cheers, Ron

Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 4 2011 20:37:29)
[Deleted by Admins]

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 20:49:52)
quote: Are we supposed to include in this the typical malaguena composition (Fast picado, tremolo, crazy rasqueados Yes and you are also required to include this part from :16 to :25

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 20:52:24)
I think you can delve as deeply into plumbing the depths of the Malagueña as you want to as long as your singer wouldn't get up and leave and/or fall asleep on stage.

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 21:01:03)

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 21:04:36)

Andy Culpepper -> RE: **New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ** (Apr. 4 2011 21:05:46)
There I just did half the work for you .[:D]

Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 4 2011 21:37:14)
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