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Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
Intermediate challenge entry
Here's my entry (Rosalind) for the intermediate challenge. Since there were so many entries (and maybe also because I was the last one) the comments were, understandably, not very specific, so I'm hoping I can get some more detailed feedback here!
A couple of the comments mentioned that my recording was a bit fast which I'd agree with (I recorded it at something like 130-135, which I incorrectly thought was the low end of the acceptable tempos!), so I slowed it down to 125 here. On the other hand, it's a bit rusty since I've got my PhD admissions exam next week and had to make up for all the studying I missed preparing for the challenge, so I haven't practiced much since the challenge ended. And since I had to meet people for dinner right after this was just a dry run without warming up. So keep that in mind when delivering harsh judgement
Hope to get some helpful tips!
By the way, the challenge was my first time uploading anything to the foro, and this is my first time posting video here, so congrats on finally getting to see my lovely mug with a guitar!
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Adam)
quote:
Hope to get some helpful tips!
Hi ramparts,
Pretty good, but lacks "life" IMO. You are playing either strictly ON the beat or slightly BEHIND the beat. To get a feeling of anticipation and vitality, try to land the salient points very slightly AHEAD of the beat. That way it projects more enthusiasm and exhuberance and "pushing ahead".
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Adam)
Some quick things to think about or to test for you.
Dont move your arm when doing ami rasguados. Put your thumb on the 6th string and get the power for the strokes from flipping the fingers from your thumb or hand. Play thumblines more with the arm and less with bending the thumb. You´ll see, the thumb is faster when player with the arm. You could raise your upper arm when doing picados. Then you dont have to bend your wrist so much.
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Adam)
hey adam, good left hand work.
doit gave some really good tips. are you flicking your rasgueados at all? they can use a bit more separation, power, and rhythmic accuracy.
about the thumb, you can turn your thumb in more and use the wrist more and less of the thumb joint like doit said and you'll see how you can get more power and speed.
the picado sections need to be cleaned up. you're just squeezing the notes in to fit the compas loop. the rhythm needs to be clearer.
but overall, the rhythm of the falseta was good.
great job! but next time, dont play like you have neighbors. or play like you're trying to piss them off. hit those strings!
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to HolyEvil)
quote:
ORIGINAL: HolyEvil
nice mate.. yeah as leo said.. more aggro would be good here =)
It's not my fault my neighbors are terrorizing me!! Thanks Doit, Anthony and HolyEvil for the tips, that's a lot of good stuff to work on. And HolyEvil, I liked your video a lot! I'll post this again in probably the next couple of weeks with another alegría falseta I picked up in Granada and hopefully there'll be some improvement. And less regard for the neighbors!
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to at_leo_87)
quote:
ORIGINAL: at_leo_87
quote:
And less regard for the neighbors!
yeah, **** those guys.
This wasn't censored in the e-mail notification I got! You and your language, Anthony...
But yeah, **** 'em. Did I tell you about the time I had friends over my room (on a Saturday night!) drinking Jerez and listening to flamenco and one of my neighbors called the porter on me?
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Adam)
quote:
I'd never even thought of using the compás for phrasing like that, I'll keep an eye on it :)
Hi Ramparts,
If you think of a "beat" of being a bit more "spread", as in (quickly) 1,2...1,2...
Then the MAIN beat is on the 2...but the "anticipated" beat on the 1.
When you are listening to Flamenco records, rather than tapping out the main beat try tapping with m and i on the table in quick succession, with the main beat on i...tah,TAH....tah,TAH.
Sorry for the crude explanation, but I have no musical theory.
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to JieXian)
JieXian,
In all sorts of music sometimes particular notes are sung or played slightly behind or ahead of the actual beat to give expression...ie..not all notes are played dead-on the metronome click. Military bands and computer generated midi-tunes for games play every note dead on the beat...but you don't want to sound like those..do you?
Playing ahead of the beat produces an excited or exhuberant expression. Playing behind the beat produces a melancolic, pensive expression.
I'm not a musician...perhaps someone else can explain better.
On the finger thing, what I mean is that instead of keeping time as tap, tap, tap, tap...you rap your fingers like dahrum, dahrum, dahrum, dahrum...
Well if the "rum" is on the metronome, then the "dah" is slightly ahead.
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Adam)
Ron - on an intellectual level I get it but if you or someone would like to put up a YouTube or audio demonstration, I think that would be very helpful for a lot of people!
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Ron.M)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
quote:
Are you talking about contra-tiempo?
Arrrrgh!
No.
I mean "It don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing".
Anyway...I give up.... I wish I had never mentioned it.
cheers,
Ron
What I mean is, if you or someone else wanted to post a "before-and-after" clip basically saying "this is what it sounds like to be right on the beat, and this is what it sounds like to be just behind the beat" that would be helpful. I personally find that it's difficult to understand this sort of stuff just by reading rather than by listening, and this is subtle enough that it's really best served by a direct comparison, rather than just posting a video of a pro and saying "do this."
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Adam)
quote:
and this is subtle enough that it's really best served by a direct comparison, rather than just posting a video of a pro and saying "do this."
Maybe someone like Todd could demonstrate it well...he's good at these things.
But it's not that subtle....I mean listen to this Alegrias....is he playing EVERY note to the click of the metronome? You only do that when you are practising.
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Ron.M)
Having playing and loving this song (off beat part starts after he introduces the lead guy)
And loving songs like this too (the main rhythm at the beginning has an obvious off beat)
The original one doesn't have that off beat
I think I know exactly what you're talking about (am I right?). Thought I think you're talking about lead, I think those 3 are very obvious showcases of the off beat thing. Try to tap along with the first video in terms of "1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &". you'll notice that he has a lot of off beat notes. You'll most probably get it but if you don't I can upload a version of me playing like a robot exactly on the beat.
Actually the accents in flamenco really confuses me. There seems to be a really strict rule yet not everyone follows it. Take a 3 6 8 10 12. I find following 12 beat rhythms really difficult. Or is it just me?
There's always a stress on playing on compas. What actually is acceptable? I didn't know I could play it slightly off. I think there's no answer that everyone will agree on right?
Ron, you actually don't play flamenco?
_____________________________
Don't afraid to be harsh in criticising my play. We're here to learn.
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to JieXian)
quote:
There's always a stress on playing on compas. What actually is acceptable? I didn't know I could play it slightly off.
You MUST play IN compás, but all the notes don't have to be ON compás is the best way I can describe it. Sure, there is a difference when an experienced player is doing it on purpose for musical expression and an inexperienced player is unintentionally doing it due to lack of ability to keep time.
quote:
Ron, you actually don't play flamenco?
No, I'm not a musician...I just play around with Flamenco guitar as a hobby.
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to Ron.M)
I've tried tapping along with BB King's video and I got what you meant. I tend to do and notice this slight off beat but I never noticed the qualities of a late or and early note. I agree with your point. And thanks for introducing me to BB King! I've heard of him but never found a particular song of his.
I think I can understand your description of compás, thanks.
_____________________________
Don't afraid to be harsh in criticising my play. We're here to learn.
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to JieXian)
Here's my second take. I've been trying to upload it since I started posting here yesterday but it stops halfway.
My codename's Alisalisa. Don't worry about my feelings or anything please just tell me what you think and/or any corrections I can do. I'm really used to being shot by my teacher anyways. After all I'm here to learn not be praised.
Thanks.
_____________________________
Don't afraid to be harsh in criticising my play. We're here to learn.
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to JieXian)
JieXian , your right hand is too chaotic!
Just try not to move that much. I mean once you play the pulgar on the right place, then you move it in the middle of the rosette ... keep steady!
What you do at 0:34 is not a flamenco posture (maybe for some rumba stuff it's ok but not for flamenco "puro"). Idem for the final note. Esthetical is also important in the flamenco guitar.
It's seems you're doing picado tirando (like arpeggio) and no apoyando, but i'm not sure of this.
The most problematic technik is your rasgueos. This is not good at all! 1. because you move your hand up and down. it's not good, you have to calm down and make very minimal mouvement with your hand.
2. To make minimal mouvement with your hand, you need to rest your thumb on the E string. It's very important. Even if you don't use the pulgar for the impulsion of your fingers, you need to NOT TAKE OFF your thumb from the E string.
Your left hand is ok. You have a good compas understanding. And imo it's a good rendition of the falseta.
Thks for posting.
_____________________________
"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to mezzo)
Merci pour votre reponse mais il y a des chose que je comprends pas.
What is "pulgar for the impulsion" and "Idem for the final note." ?
I notice the movement haha I was a little too excited and feeling it maybe. I will pay more attention my right hand and keep it stable next time.
I do the picado with my fingers more bent like a free stroke because I realised my wrist hurts when I bend it out to play rest strokes Raising my upper arm higher will help so that I won't need to bend my wrist out to play picado. However doing that is really very tiring. Especially when practicing. In december I couldnt play the picado at 110 bpm comfortably and I've practiced a lot, which is why my posture changed. Still, I'm quite sure that the movement is not a free stroke, though it may be close.
What do you think I should do?
Actually I'm a beginner to flamenco with no teacher and I've just jumbled up some ideas , using Ruben Diaz's one as a guide :x and fixed it to make them fit into the compás. Does my ending compás sound weird?
_____________________________
Don't afraid to be harsh in criticising my play. We're here to learn.
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to JieXian)
quote:
I will pay more attention my right hand and keep it stable next time.
yes this is very important. Look at the great players and focus on their right hand position. The hand makes very minimal movements.
quote:
What is "pulgar for the impulsion" and "Idem for the final note." ?
for the final note, i mean the last strumming you play. For my taste it's not aesthetical coz you done it from the middle of the soundhole.
"pulgar for the impulsion" this refers to the rasgueos. there are 2 ways to execute this technique. One is to involve the thumb in it, the other is without the thumb (like you do). In any case you really need to rest your thumb on the E string while doing rasgueos. I check your ending compas and it's not clear and not clean because your rasgueos tecnik is not solid. Plus you're out at the end coz you don't end on 10.
Dr. Diaz have some good vid explanation for the rasgueos. If you practice it properly like him copying exactly his right hand position, you gonna get a killer rasgueos
for the picados i don't know. There are pages and pages on this foro about this technik. Just read the advices and choose the better postion for your anatomy. I don't think there are rules for the picados hand position.
__________ EDIT JieXian, just focus on the Morao's right thumb while he's doing rasgueos. That's the spirit man! You just need to COPY him.
_____________________________
"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
RE: Intermediate challenge entry (in reply to mezzo)
Thanks for your advice. The should the last stroke be nearer to the bridge?
quote:
move it in the middle of the rosette
Actually I heard some different, more softer tone from players and Jose Tanaka and I was trying to get that sound by playing near the neck. Is that what flamenco players don't do?
That video looked spontaneous. If it really was.. wow the whole bar could clap together. Thanks for introducing me to Morao.
_____________________________
Don't afraid to be harsh in criticising my play. We're here to learn.
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