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I know flamenco is not all about speed ect. . . but I'm just curious to see what speed you guys can play at with the metronome. 16th notes would be the best indication if you dont mind? 16th notes = Mine is on 146 BPM and my goal is 180 Bpm for now.
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
Because long picadoruns are almost "out of fashion" its not important for me. :.) I also use much 3 finger picado or ligado for runs because my i,a and i,m picado doesnt work so good. But 180bpm is no problem with my techniques if the run is not too long.
Anyway, the goal should always be to become a "round" guitarist. That means that you get all techniques to the same level. I dont know you, so I wont argue about you but I know many people who have fast picado down but all the rest as well as playing compas is lacking. Thats not the right way I think.
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
let me get this straight mmmm ... how to measure the speed exactly ? do you mean you can play 16th notes per click of metronome at speed 146bpm or wat ? tell me so i can measure mine
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Elie)
hmm well yes, when you play any major scale or run, every 5th note you hit should be on the beat. or is it every 4th note? seems to me every 5th note is on the click. . .
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to stratos13)
Play any major scale up or down. . . I guess that will give you a rough estimate. Again im just curious to see what speeds you guys have reached over the years ect. . . nothing to be exact just a rough estimate please.
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to jg7238)
quote:
If you are doing 16th notes, it would be 4 notes per click. But yeah every 5th note is the click in reality. 16th notes are grouped into 4 though. You basically have to get the 4 notes in before the click.
If you’re playing four notes per beat the options are:
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
ok I just finished doing some experiments with 4 notes per click and the 5th note on click I could achieve 145 Bpm using i-m and 155 Bpm using i-a weird I always practice scales with i-m and still my i-a is faster .
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
quote:
Haha thats weird,
well you know lol its funny and surprising at the same time . but over all mm I really wanna thank you because I quit workin with metronome for long time .. and I just realized that its a big mistake so the metronome will be beside me all the time now . thank you mate
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Elie)
Hahaha no problem :) What I find interesting in my experience with a metronome is that sometimes I dont practice with it for about a month and then when I come back to it my speed increased each time. But obviously in that time I still worked on doing fast runs ect. . .
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
what are you guys talking about every 5 beats? 16th notes are 4 notes per beat.
1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
anyways, i haven't tested my top speed in awhile. i actually recently started from scratch because every time i sped up towards my top speed, my picado got weaker, less punchier, less accurate etc. so it didnt count for me.
im currently practicing IM scales at 125, 16ths. IA at 105, 16ths. MA at 150, 8ths. im practicing a couple of alegrias 1 compas runs at 145.
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to at_leo_87)
Leo that tip you gave me boosted my picado dramaticly! thanks again :) (when practicing picado staccato helped kept my i-m fingers close by and very economical.)
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
quote:
What I find interesting in my experience with a metronome is that sometimes I dont practice with it for about a month and then when I come back to it my speed increased each time. But obviously in that time I still worked on doing fast runs ect.
wow thats interesting i'll give it a try :) .
quote:
what are you guys talking about every 5 beats? 16th notes are 4 notes per beat. 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
yea this is exactly what I was doing and what Reinhart told me to do =>referring to each click/beat of the metronome as X --------------------------------------------------------- 1------>5 ______1------>5 X_____X_____X_____X_____X_____X 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 --------------------------------------------------------- the first click is on the first note .. take a look at the next click it is on the first note of the second quarters but the 5th note of the first quarters so that what the guys meant by clicking on every 5 beats while actually we're doing 4 notes per click
Posts: 14873
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
depends on the run. On a good day 180. Short bursts in compas up to 200 and beyond, again depends on the sequence of notes. Some tough runs are hard for me even at 160-170. All depends on the sequence and for how long. I used to work a lot on triplet runs with a pick so I can go faster with 6's then with 4's or 8's for that reason. When improvising on rumba I can do some 6's runs at 120-130 again depends on the duration and sequence.
Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
quote:
I know flamenco is not all about speed ect. .
You are absolutely correct, flamenco is not all about speed. In fact, the whole striving to reach ever faster BPMs is faintly ridiculous and a waste of time. It is the equivalent of a juggler in a circus sideshow, mildly amusing, but so what?!
As long as it is in compas, a slower soleares can be one of the most beautiful musical pieces one can experience. And the same goes for the dance it accompanies. Why so many believe that one must play as fast as possible is a mystery to me. It represents the triumph of gimmickry over true artistry.
Cheers,
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
You are absolutely correct, flamenco is not all about speed. In fact, the whole striving to reach ever faster BPMs is faintly ridiculous and a waste of time. It is the equivalent of a juggler in a circus sideshow, mildly amusing, but so what?!
As long as it is in compas, a slower soleares can be one of the most beautiful musical pieces one can experience. And the same goes for the dance it accompanies. Why so many believe that one must play as fast as possible is a mystery to me. It represents the triumph of gimmickry over true artistry.
Cheers,
Bill
it's not about achieving the fastest picado. but you should strive to improve your technique. one of the best to test your abilities is increasing speed while maintaining control and tone.
from a beginner's standpoint, you would have to increase your speed of any technique to play at all. so what's the difference between a beginner learning a 16th note run at solea speed and an intermediate player learning a 16th note run at alegrias speed?
what's stopping that intermediate player from increasing his picado speed so that when he performs at concert speed, he is confident and under absolute control?
you can only play what your technique is capable of. so not improving your technique would be severely limiting.
Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to at_leo_87)
quote:
it's not about achieving the fastest picado. but you should strive to improve your technique. one of the best to test your abilities is increasing speed while maintaining control and tone.
You are correct as far as the above quote goes. Up to a certain point, increasing speed (while maintaining control) is good. Many beginning (and intermediate) players, however, seem to think that in flamenco, faster is always better. Not so, say I. In my opinion, beyond a certain point it just becomes, as I stated, "the triumph of gimmickry over true artistry." My opinion only, of course.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
You are correct as far as the above quote goes. Up to a certain point, increasing speed (while maintaining control) is good. Many beginning (and intermediate) players, however, seem to think that in flamenco, faster is always better. Not so, say I. In my opinion, beyond a certain point it just becomes, as I stated, "the triumph of gimmickry over true artistry." My opinion only, of course.
the only reason why i think beginners and intermediates obsess about speed is because they see the potential for new doors to open.
it only becomes a problem when speed is put first, and everything else becomes sloppy, imo.
but so far, i haven't seen any uploads of fast players here who also lacked musicality. i haven't seen any examples of "triumph of gimmickry over true artistry."
RE: What is your metronome picado sp... (in reply to Reinhart)
Yea the main reason why I stated in my first post that Flamenco is not about speed and that im only curious to see where the average flamenco player picado speed levels are is not to be going into to much talk about why going fast and stuff like that. . .
If u wanna play fast then go for it, everybodies tastes are different and changes overtime. But I was only curious and thanks alot for most of the replies really appreciate it
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I always practice scales with i-m and still my i-a is faster . 
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