Plek Guitar Setup System

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HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

Plek Guitar Setup System

Anyone here tried this?
http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/preston.htm

It's suppose to be this wonderful setup system by a precision machine.
But is it only good for electric and steelstring guitars?

Would it work for nylon string guitar?

cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2009 7:12:11

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to HolyEvil)

Amazing machine eh?

But only for guitars wth truss rods. With a truss rod you can build relief (a curve ) into the fretboard.
On classical/flamenco guitars there is no truss rod and the fingerboard is dead flat usually.
It would be helpful to have a little relief on a flamenco guitar but it is difficult to build it in and since there is no truss rod, it would be even harder to adjust it later if the neck moved in any way.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2009 23:29:26

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to krichards)

quote:

ORIGINAL: krichards

On classical/flamenco guitars there is no truss rod and the fingerboard is dead flat usually.
It would be helpful to have a little relief on a flamenco guitar but it is difficult to build it in and since there is no truss rod, it would be even harder to adjust it later if the neck moved in any way.

I beg to differ. I think most luthiers put some relief in the neck of both classic and flamenco guitars. It allows you to set the action a little lower.

Necks move all the time regardless whether they start out flat. Right now we're waiting for the humidity to stabilize so we can finish set-up on four guitars. We like the humidity to be close to 45% but when it's very cold outside it's hard to hold it steady. It's been dropping down to 37-38 at times. Without the finish guitar necks move around a surprising amount with humidity swings. Once the finish is on the neck reacts more slowly since only the fingerboard is unsealed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2009 6:09:37

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to HolyEvil)

Yes, the relief is important. Not much, but just a little bit

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2009 8:16:11

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

Without the finish guitar necks move around a surprising amount with humidity swings. Once the finish is on the neck reacts more slowly since only the fingerboard is unsealed

John,
I've seen some old Flamenco guitars where the finish has been completely worn off due to years and years of professional use.

Would humidity have a big effect on those too, or does the grain tend to seal up over time?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2009 8:30:52

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to HolyEvil)

Maybe a dumb question, but what exactly do you guys mean 'relief'?

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2009 9:07:10

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

I've seen some old Flamenco guitars where the finish has been completely worn off due to years and years of professional use.

Would humidity have a big effect on those too, or does the grain tend to seal up over time?

Theoretically yes; but usually there's a layer of skin particles, dirt and natural oils from the hands that probably help seal the wood. We've refinished several necks like you describe. Some were so bad I felt like wearing rubber gloves when handling them.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2009 9:10:59

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Exitao

Maybe a dumb question, but what exactly do you guys mean 'relief'?

It's a slight warp in the fingerboard.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2009 9:35:54

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

quote:

ORIGINAL: Exitao

Maybe a dumb question, but what exactly do you guys mean 'relief'?

It's a slight warp in the fingerboard.

So... concaved? Where is this usually located? Sorry for my curiosity.

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2009 14:39:51

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Exitao

So... concaved? Where is this usually located? Sorry for my curiosity.

Don't know exactly what you mean by "usually located". Ideally the neck has a warp that descends to about the 5th or 6th fret then rises to about the 12th or higher. This is not to be confused with what we traditionally think of as a warped neck since it is very slight. We use a high quality straight edge to set it. It's measured with the strings on and up to pitch and the action set very close to ideal but no frets. It's kind of a trial and error adjustment done by setting the neck in a jig to bend it one way or the other and sanding it flat then putting on the strings and checking the relief. Once the neck is sanded flat one can also shave a little wood off the back of the neck to get the neck to flex the right amount. It takes a little practice to get comfortable with it. One needs to be aware of how much back bend will result from installing the frets as well (that's part of why it takes a little practice).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2009 14:55:49

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to HolyEvil)

John, do you use a reinforced neck?

I dont get much variations and the relief I make on the fingerboard without putting the strings on first.
I use a double reincorcement and controlled humidity.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2009 9:10:02

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

John, do you use a reinforced neck?

I dont get much variations and the relief I make on the fingerboard without putting the strings on first.
I use a double reincorcement and controlled humidity.

To be honest Anders over the years I tried all kinds of reinforcement from graphite to rosewoods and ebony and never saw any difference in the strength or stability that I could notice over plain Spanish Cedar.

The climate here is almost a rainforest (70-120 inches of rain per year) so we only use a dehumidifier but very rarely in the winter we get some cold dry air and the humidity gets into the high 30's. It seldom lasts more than a few days but we usually just take a break from guitar making when it happens and do some other woodworking. This week I'm building a wine storage cabinet. The humidity never drops low enough to do any damage so it's not a big concern.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2009 10:45:17

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to HolyEvil)

Thank you for your explanation John. Very understandable.

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Callidus et iracundus.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2009 15:51:09

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to HolyEvil)

Both my classical and flamenco guitars have been "Plek'd".

My local luthier, "Phil Jacoby", in Baltimore, has a Plek machine.

The idea with nylon strings, is not about the neck relief.

Its about the frets. With the Plek, Phil is able to file the frets according
to the elyptical pattern of the strings.
This allows for lower action, with no buzz.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2009 21:11:58

rombsix

Posts: 7830
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

Its about the frets. With the Plek, Phil is able to file the frets according
to the elyptical pattern of the strings.
This allows for lower action, with no buzz.

Has anyone tried this in 2024 rather than in 2009?

I'm having fret / buzz issues...

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2024 4:24:12

Ricardo

Posts: 14892
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Its about the frets. With the Plek, Phil is able to file the frets according
to the elyptical pattern of the strings.
This allows for lower action, with no buzz.

Has anyone tried this in 2024 rather than in 2009? I'm having fret / buzz issues...

I will go out on a limb and assume you know that raising the bridge saddle (you can use strips of wood or cardboard if you dont’ want to make a new saddle) fixes this problem if it is general. So what I had done to one guitar that was affected by humidity (specific spots buzzed because swollen fingerboard pushed the frets up), was a simple and relatively cheap repair job by a luthier called a “fret leveling” where they use a short rocker between each fret rather than that long straight edge. I recommend this to any drastic measures first.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2024 14:39:34

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1679
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to HolyEvil)

quote:

Anyone here tried this?

The video is private, but I assume you are referring to this:https://plek.com/products/the-plek-station/

Holy cow, soon they'll be replacing us luthiers with AI.

I'll take this opportunity to mention that I recently stopped carving any relief into frets or fingerboards because, with the Spanish cedar that I have and the neck thickness I use, even with pultruded graphite reinforcement, my necks flex very slightly under string tension--just enough to cause the right amount of relief.

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www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2024 4:24:27

rombsix

Posts: 7830
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I will go out on a limb and assume you know that raising the bridge saddle (you can use strips of wood or cardboard if you dont’ want to make a new saddle) fixes this problem if it is general. So what I had done to one guitar that was affected by humidity (specific spots buzzed because swollen fingerboard pushed the frets up), was a simple and relatively cheap repair job by a luthier called a “fret leveling” where they use a short rocker between each fret rather than that long straight edge. I recommend this to any drastic measures first.

Indeed, tried raising the saddle (which helped a little bit), but in my case (as usual), it's more complicated. The guitar has electronics, and it's been impossible to get them to work (i.e. maintain a healthy output and maintain string-to-string volume balance) except with the saddle that came with the guitar (which is very low). So after multiple, multiple attempts at making perfectly flat saddles (that are higher) of several different materials, we still couldn't get the electronics to work (the electronics are the reason I want this guitar). Maybe we'll try giving that effort another go in the future (raising the saddle while miraculously being able to get the electronics to work), but as of right now, I gave up on that (saddle slot perfectly flat, etc. etc. - to no avail).

So for now, the low saddle has to stay, and we need to work with the frets. We did the fret level like you suggested, and that did help, but not significantly so. I think the idea is now that the fingerboard itself is lumpy/bumpy (not perfectly flat), so the next step is going to be: remove all frets, plane the fingerboard perfectly flat, then refret. Let's see if that fixes it... if not, then next step will be considering the use of a Plek machine.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2024 13:23:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14892
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to rombsix)

In terms of bone saddle over piezo…you have to make a bone the height you need, then slice it into 6 pieces, one under each string. Like a Godin R.Mclish type thing. On a cheap guitar, IMO planing the fingerboard and refretting the whole thing is very extreme. Just buy a new acoustic electric that feels and sound right.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 11 2024 16:57:31

rombsix

Posts: 7830
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

In terms of bone saddle over piezo…you have to make a bone the height you need, then slice it into 6 pieces, one under each string. Like a Godin R.Mclish type thing.

Interesting - have you ever done something like this? If so, can you show me a photo? And did it work?

What would hold each separate piece of bone and prevent it from being displaced with string tension? I feel like if it's such a small piece, when you tighten the strings, each small piece of bone would want to move to the side and they'd all bunch up in the middle, no?

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2024 15:01:27

Ricardo

Posts: 14892
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

In terms of bone saddle over piezo…you have to make a bone the height you need, then slice it into 6 pieces, one under each string. Like a Godin R.Mclish type thing.

Interesting - have you ever done something like this? If so, can you show me a photo? And did it work?

What would hold each separate piece of bone and prevent it from being displaced with string tension? I feel like if it's such a small piece, when you tighten the strings, each small piece of bone would want to move to the side and they'd all bunch up in the middle, no?

My friend who now builds the MCO guitars used to fix piezos that were unbalanced this way. Sometimes it was enough to cut a bone in half between the D and G strings, as the pressure was over all too strong on one full side than the other. In other cases the strings were not balanced on case by case basis. Many of the guitars on his site are using the gold mclish pickups to trigger the midi interface (so the guitars have two jacks, one for midi and the the other to get the golpe sound from the internal mic).

Not sure but this guitar looks like it might be carbon fiber saddle that he cut for each string. In any case that is what you could imagine for a proper bone saddle on top of the piezo. Obviously you would want to change one string at a time.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2024 12:04:41

rombsix

Posts: 7830
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Plek Guitar Setup System (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Not sure but this guitar looks like it might be carbon fiber saddle that he cut for each string

Ah, interesting... Thanks!

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2024 15:16:19

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