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HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

PEGHEDS anybody??? 

I've been checking these guys out, anybody got any thoughts on them? PEGHEDS

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2008 3:09:28
 
jrabbani

 

Posts: 192
Joined: Jun. 28 2006
From: Los Angeles

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

i have em on my schramm. no complaints thus far. i've had her for about 4 years now. easier than trad pegs.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2008 4:15:49
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
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From: Chicago

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to jrabbani

sexy. wish i had an excuse to buy some!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2008 5:05:45
 
kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

I'm interested in these as well. A while back I emailed the owner and asked if he had any pics of these things installed on guitars. Well he sent a few and I put them in an album here for future reference. He also sent a pdf brochure, but I have no clue how to post that.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm169/kovachian/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2008 6:04:26
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

Pegheds have been discussed here many times. Search and you´ll find

I´ve installed a set and its not my taste. I dont like the feel. I think they are very thick and not good looking and to be honest, I dont think they offer a tuning which is really a difference to a well fitted peg and they dont give me this hardcore vibrant feel of a wooden peghead flamenca blanca.

Most problems with pegs come from people not understanding how they work and not knowing how to maintain them. Professional classical violinists either learn to maintain the pegs or they take the instrument to a luthier every 6 month or so.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2008 14:05:20
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

how does one maintain their pegs anders? I have always wondered that. I mean, can't really make the hole smaller, or make the peg bigger./.......

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2008 3:15:37
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

First. how should a well fitted peg work:
Pegs and hole are conical, meaning the more you push it in, the more difficult it´ll turn. A lot of players think they have to push the pig into the head very hard in order to not slip. Thats not true and its one of the reasons players cant make the work.
A well maintained and lubricated peg should turn without any need or very little need to be pushed in. When you start the days playing and especially after not having played the guitar for a while, the pegs might feel stiff, and so you gently loosen it by detuning the string a bit while you drag the peg slightly outside. Then you pitch the string while you gently push the peg inside. Just enough to not make it slip. If the peg is well fitted and also well lubricated it can now be turned without any problems. Its not a big deal. You get used to it.
Thin pegs tune the best because you move les string in one turn.
I will not say that pegs tune as well as good machine tuners, but they are as good as a standard tuner with imperfections in the gear.

Lubrication. You can buy pegdope, you can mix a creamy soap with chalk and on French polished guitars you can use a mix of ballbearing grease and fine pumice. Use very little.

Its nice to maintain a peghead. Its like adjusting an old motorbike and take it for a ride in the early summer morning


quote:

I mean, can't really make the hole smaller, or make the peg bigger./.......


No, but you can shave and fit a new peg. No big deal.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2008 6:53:44
 
Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

I used the ones from Brian Burns.

http://www.lessonsinlutherie.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2008 16:02:26
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

anders, thanks man!

i assume that the pegheads adda more earthy woody dryness to the sound..correct?

i wonder why the planetary gears dont do as well

very nice lam on that head in the pic! i am sorely tempted to order a blanca from you, but i think wiht the dollar-euro exchange...i'd be broke and penniless...but at least i'd have a peghead blanca!!!

on the topic of ordering from europe, if someday, i did order from you, i have a fedex account, would you agree to send it that way?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2008 21:36:09
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

quote:

i think wiht the dollar-euro exchange...i'd be broke and penniless...but at least i'd have a peghead blanca!!!


And thats what matters....... The exchange rate is a serious problem for those of us building and selling.

I will of course ship with Fedex. No problem. But it´ll have to be with insurrance

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 28 2008 7:06:09
 
hannabach

 

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RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

There is a timeless charm that only a wonderful peghead can impart on the player...Question Anders...being a luthier is it quite difficult to replace a top on a guitar...the sound would be different of course. Thanks J



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 28 2008 8:54:12
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1407
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From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Anders, how many wraps do you recommend on a peg? In some pictures it appears the string is wrapped around the peg as little as two times. It might be an advantage over machine tuners--the additional wraps could take more time for a new set of strings to settle and stay in tune.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 28 2008 20:03:07
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

Hannabach, Please loosen the strings on this guitar. Its your Marin, no?

I think I would prefer repairing this one. Changing tops is about the last thing to do. I understand that you would like to have a new guitar without a crack, but this will have to be between you and Marín.

Pgh_flamenco: I havent experimented with wraps on pegs..... I just put the strings on.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 29 2008 7:11:58
 
hannabach

 

Posts: 50
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RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Hi Anders,

Yes..I did loosen off the strings...maybe I will drop in a see you while in Granada...take care James
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2008 2:16:23
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

You are very welcome, but remember that I moved to Beas in the Huelva province which is some 350 km from Granada. Nicer weather and better flamenco, less tourists.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2008 9:22:27
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

I wonder how you guys lubricate the wooden pegs in order to make them work smoothly but without over lubricate them. I've heard different things like candle wax and graphite powder.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2008 9:38:08
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

Armando, Anders answered this a few post up.

quote:

Lubrication. You can buy pegdope, you can mix a creamy soap with chalk and on French polished guitars you can use a mix of ballbearing grease and fine pumice. Use very little.


I haven't had a peg guitar for years but back in the 70's when I had a string instrument repair shop, I didn't like any lube. I preferred a well fitted peg and developed a quick shaking of the tuning hand that with practice would let the peg pull the string in tune quickly and stay. I adopted this method from being a piano tuner. When a peghead needed repair I drilled out the old holes and used a 3/8" hard maple dowel to fill the hole and then drilled and tapered the maple insert to fit the ebony peg as perfect as possible. I found the ebony/maple combination made for smooth tuning and required no lube. It also had a nice look IMO.

How many times to wrap the string around the peg isn't as important as how you secure it in the peg hole. The idea is to prevent slipping. Sometimes the different ways of stringing pegs is just a matter of looks and personal taste.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2008 14:26:43
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1407
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Samarto

quote:

How many times to wrap the string around the peg isn't as important as how you secure it in the peg hole. The idea is to prevent slipping. Sometimes the different ways of stringing pegs is just a matter of looks and personal taste.


Thanks Samarto, I've never used pegs and was wondering about how they might have an advantage over machines. All I know is it takes a long time--too long--for new strings to settle and stay in tune on my guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2008 14:40:24
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

PGH, The peghead is considered an advantage by some flamenco guitarist because of weight if one holds the guitar in the "traditional" way. I find in many cases, the weight difference is little if any and not an issue. I think it is more tradition and personal preference, not that one is better than the other. Here are things to consider if you have problem getting new strings to stay in tune other than normal stretching. What kind of machine heads do you have? It is well worth the cost to invest in a high quality tuner set. I like the Fustero premium tuners for cost, looks, and function. How do you secure your string on the roller. How do you tie it on the bridge? There are many schools of thought on this here on the internet that you might study and find which works for you. Also it seems some strings are worse about stretching than others. I find the LaBella 820's seem to stretch out quicker than some other brands.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2008 15:06:11
 
prd1

 

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007
 

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Hey Anders - that peghead is fantastic...if you don't mind me asking - what is the radius of the hole at the front face, I love the look of the thin pegs.

Cheers

Peter
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2008 15:38:46
 
hannabach

 

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008
 

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Greetings again Anders,
I was checking out your location on Google earth...you are east of Seville...it seems that no tourists could ever find you...perhaps not a bad thing!
I fly out of Vancouver tomorrow, arrive in Malaga, off to see Juan Gonzales in Almeria on Tuesday...then Marin wed...when I visit Seville in a few days after that I will check into the means to get to Beas..train or bus...here are couple of my peghaead flamenco made by Jeff Sigurdson of Vancouver...one is Maple the other cypress...take it easy and keep an eye peeled for unsuspecting tourists invading your quite little hamlet...James

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2008 17:19:06
 
kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Samarto

I was going to mention the trick of gluing in maple dowels before I noticed that Samarto had beat me to it. Cedar and mahogany are too soft to be securing ebony pegs so consequently, the peg holes would wear out too quickly.

This is a guitar I'm having built, and some folks would have no idea wtf is going on here unless you explained the purpose of the maple dowels.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2008 0:53:06
 
nhills

Posts: 230
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: West Des Moines, IA USA

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to kovachian

See Aaron Green's article in _American Lutherie_.

Norman

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2008 0:58:25
 
cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to kovachian

If you are doing pegheads wouldn't it make sense to offset the pegs so the strings line-up with the pegs rather than the acute angles from the nut to the peg? Is it tradition or is there good sense to the way things are done?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2008 1:06:21
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1407
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Samarto

Samarto, I loop the strings twice through the hole on the tuner for all but the low E and A; at the tie block I use the typical braid over the block. I noticed the entire guitar lowers in pitch about a half step within a week or so and continues to lower in pitch after that. Is this a problem with cheap factory tuners? I have an Alhambra 7FC.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2008 1:21:49
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
Joined: Mar. 21 2008
 

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

Cathulu, Well, it would look bad IMO and there is no problem with the angles if the nut is smoothed correctly. I always wind my E 6 to the left of the peg or roller and the E1 to the right of the peg or roller. I can't say it does anything except it looks better to me especially on pegheads. with pegheads one has to remember which way to turn the peg on the E's if this method is used. Look at the photo of the Anders in a few post up ... it is strung like this.

PGH, Tough question. I would guess the machines if you have tried different strings with the same result. I try to play a little everyday so I always keep mine at pitch and usually after 3 days it doesn't take much but very fine tuning. My Dominquez has top grade Fusteros which replace the lower grade that came with the guitar new. My homebrew negra has Goth very top of line tuners and they are not quite as good as the Fusteros, but very acceptable.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2008 2:28:07
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
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RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to nhills

quote:

See Aaron Green's article in _American Lutherie_.

Norman


Which number?

I have used maple inlays as well. I must admit that I dont think its nescessary. If the cedar is good quality it´ll work. I´ve seen very old pegheads with cedar that worked perfectly well. Its more a matter of fitting the pegs well.

Peter, I shave the pegs so that the tip of them are 6mm. It gives you the advantage of a more precise tuning and also that you can change to thicker pegs if the holes wear out without having to plug the holes. Just pass the reamer and fit some new pegs and it´ll be like a new one.

Hannabach.

Just call me when you are in Sevilla and We´ll find out something. I can pick you up in Huelva or in Niebla and send you back with the bus.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2008 7:20:38
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1407
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

When it comes to pegs does this guy know what he's talking about?

The Handmade Peg
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2008 7:53:54
 
Samarto

Posts: 160
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RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to HemeolaMan

Anders, #82, page 44 according to my reference, however I haven't read the article so I am not sure. I sure like what I see of your work, it is first rate. I agree on the peghead that if fitted right cedar/ebony works excellent. Only time I used the maple insert was for repairs after the hole was worn too large. I found the maple/ebony was slightly smoother but then I never used any lube on the ebony/cedar combo either which might have smoothed it up. The secret to pegs on any instrument is a precision fit just as you have stated.

PGH, Well, this guys pegs are fairly crude and ok for a dulcimer. I have never made pegs, just fitted them, so I am no expert on peg making, however I prefer a peg that is more ornate for a fine flamenco peghead.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2008 12:58:10
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13234
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PEGHEDS anybody??? (in reply to Armando

quote:

ORIGINAL: Armando

I wonder how you guys lubricate the wooden pegs in order to make them work smoothly but without over lubricate them. I've heard different things like candle wax and graphite powder.


I have always prefered machine heads, but I understand why folks like pegheads. I will just say, if the concept is the same as the trad Cejilla, if you are on the gig and you dont' have peg "dope", you can use sweat from your forehead or side of your nose. At least it worked for the cejilla! Honestly I did that in a gig last year when the peg was slipping, and the thing has been fine ever since.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 1 2008 3:05:31
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