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Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to gj Michelob)
why this topic still going on like this? we had another one where we went through lots of very serious examples of good female players (not going to search it). and even had that ridiculous "why don't women contribute" thread. its enough of this IMO.
anyway I posted before, Salvadora Galan, playing pretty much Pepe Habichuela falsetas note for note no problem and sings like an angel. And she is an old lady.
And here is a young pretty one playing pretty much like any pro virtuoso and accompanying a tough not so common (these days) form (fandango por solea) I already posted it several times. No point in trying to say she is not Paco or Tomatito etc, as she is putting all the trimmings and right hand attack that they would into this. I admit some of the clips above (street girl with wild uncontrolled abanicos, or Laura Gonzales boring attempt at PDL granaina and solea accompaniment pretty wishy washy) are not i the same calibur as you see here:
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
why this topic still going on like this? we had another one where we went through lots of very serious examples of good female players (not going to search it). and even had that ridiculous "why don't women contribute" thread. its enough of this IMO.
anyway I posted before, Salvadora Galan, playing pretty much Pepe Habichuela falsetas note for note no problem and sings like an angel. And she is an old lady.
And here is a young pretty one playing pretty much like any pro virtuoso and accompanying a tough not so common (these days) form (fandango por solea) I already posted it several times. No point in trying to say she is not Paco or Tomatito etc, as she is putting all the trimmings and right hand attack that they would into this. I admit some of the clips above (street girl with wild uncontrolled abanicos, or Laura Gonzales boring attempt at PDL granaina and solea accompaniment pretty wishy washy) are not i the same calibur as you see here:
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Chilli Fingers)
quote:
banging away repetativly at a cheap $200 factory guitar
you all the time i lived in Andalucia,, thats exactly what the gypsies did ... I knew a guy who would do exactly that , big fella, used to wear a lot of gold chains and that ...he would play sometimes tangos and rumbas ... and sing ... just banging away on a less than £200 guitar ....and the whole party would come to life , with shouting and dancing in the street, or plaza or wherever ...
Although I knew a few guys who played bit more and would get roped into accompanying dance and singing . at the verbena of whatever ....
the vast majority had cheapish hand-me down guitars ....but they really made it flamenco ...and thats what it is ,,,, Flamenco isnt all about the best guitar in the best acoustic setting and having top international players around ....not that i am putting that down ...
But flamenco is the music of a people .. its singing and dancing their stories , in their way ,..it getting families and friends together , eating drinking and having a good time ....
thats what i was part of and loved it all ... if only i could have played 3 or 4 chords in the same way as what i heard them play over there... The girl in the clip would have got a big OLE from all the people i knew in Cordoba at that time ....
I suppose , basically , i dont agree with what you said .....
I saw Olga Pericet last week in London at the Sadlers Wells' flamenco festival. She brings along a female guitarist and she plays everything fine.
There are few "tocaoras" because most parents put their daughters in dancing classes instead of guitar classes. It's just the tradition, nothing to do with physique.
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Ricardo)
what i found in a quick youtube search: celia morales is great! also not too bad: marta robles, antonia jimenez, mercedes lujan... there are a lot. i found also a trailer of a documentary about the history of female flamenco guitarists on youtube, tocaoras is it called, i think. seems to be really interesting, but only a trailer and small snippets on youtube. greetings, ben
A guitar teacher friend of mine said last week that women can't really play flamenco, as they don't have the muscular strength or stamina in their right hands. Without being smutty, can you provide any evidence to disprove his statement, or do you agree with him? Preferably I'd like to send him a video or something. (which he'll then probably regard as an unusual freakish one-off!)
Lura Gonzalez, in my book has it hands down, for playing Flamenco
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Tap_Tap)
@Tap_Tap my guess is that it's just because it's already a composite form with North African music (hence the title, solea "por muwachah"). So it's already not really solea, not cana either, despite some of the signs of a cana. "Just" a fusion piece.
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Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to callemunicion)
In the Granaina at 2:40-2:59, I take issue with the reharmonization there.... my thoughts are well documented here, if anyone gives a hoot.... my post about Granaina:
A guitar teacher friend of mine said last week that women can't really play flamenco, as they don't have the muscular strength or stamina in their right hands. Without being smutty, can you provide any evidence to disprove his statement, or do you agree with him?
She's not a flamenco guitarist. What she is doing from 3:20 proves women can keep up with men when it comes to heavy strumming. At 3:48 she switches to Paco's flamenco sitting position to feel comfortable with her heavy rasgueado-like strumming. Very impressive.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
quote:
A guitar teacher friend of mine said last week that women can't really play flamenco, as they don't have the muscular strength or stamina in their right hands. Without being smutty, can you provide any evidence to disprove his statement, or do you agree with him?
She's not a flamenco guitarist. What she is doing from 3:20 proves women can keep up with men when it comes to heavy strumming. At 3:48 she switches to Paco's flamenco sitting position to feel comfortable with her heavy rasgueado-like strumming. Very impressive.
What are you freakin talking about? It was totally non rhythmic and obnoxiously out of control garbage. Please go up and watch Mercedes again, that is how you do rasgueados.
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Ricardo)
Also she uses heavy amplification; a toddler can strum her guitar and produce LOUD SOUNDS, so this is the wrong 'proof'. However, pointing this out should in no way be construed as an implicit or explicit endorsement of the claim that women cannot do hard rasgueados; I am just pointing out the logical flaw in this specific purported proof that they can. Of course women can do it.
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
What are you freakin talking about? It was totally non rhythmic and obnoxiously out of control garbage. Please go up and watch Mercedes again, that is how you do rasgueados.
Sorry, it was not what I expected. I thought her playing is gonna blow my mind. After watching it from 11:28 makes me want to agree with the guitar teacher friend of the OP. Her technique is sloppy too. For example at 16:00 who plays picado like this? I've seen Graf Martinez doing picado like this. But his advice on picado was way off anyway.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
quote:
What are you freakin talking about? It was totally non rhythmic and obnoxiously out of control garbage. Please go up and watch Mercedes again, that is how you do rasgueados.
Sorry, it was not what I expected. I thought her playing is gonna blow my mind. After watching it from 11:28 makes me want to agree with the guitar teacher friend of the OP. Her technique is sloppy too. For example at 16:00 who plays picado like this? I've seen Graf Martinez doing picado like this. But his advice on picado was way off anyway.
Well first of all, I have to thank you for the vid cuz I hadn’t seen it. I am used to her excellent recent clips on facebook. Now, I admit she has lots of mistakes on this show, mid interview with no edit, but she already won me over years ago with they way she accompanies cante. So maybe she doesn’t care much about guitar soloing I don’t know? But when she is onstage she kicks ass, and played with one of my favorite cantaoras of all time Maria Vargas so I am totally envious of her even if I can deliver a more accurate picado or whatever.
Can’t wait to see your live interview and unrehearsed performance of perfection devil, oh....as soon as you get a flamenco guitar I mean.
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