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Posts: 4577
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
Can Foroflamenco be revived??
I'm quite surprised how empty and inactive the foro has become. It is particularly noticable as a member from the old days, after being away for longer periods of time. Of course I know that the forum format is not as popular as it once was and is being replaced by things like discord, reddit, etc. But still seing that there are probably only 5 to 10 members posting in total and last member joined was in July is quite worrying.
The question is, can we do something to revive this place? I think a passive approach might eventually just lead to its death. Not sure what to do though.
Posts: 15984
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to Arash)
Unfortunately it is a sign of the times. The people active and interested in flamenco discussion have probably found other spaces. It is a shame really. In the future after I release (eventually) some research into flamenco origins I plan to have an open chat for the topic available on my website, which could include the generic strings nails compas guitar wood etc questions that keep this place going. I hope long term this place can be archived as "read only", and if not, I would at least like to get my 16k posts downloaded to a drive or something, with active YouTube links at least. In the past, when members have jumped ship certain closed or deleted threads remain useful thanks to the text quote boxes preserved in active member responses. I think with my posts, someone could discern what the discussion was about from my posts, and I would be willing to host all my pages on my website for posterity. Again this would be only if the entire foro could not be archived "read only" somewhere.
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to Arash)
This is the only Flamenco web hangout I use. It's a massive resource, but yeah, it's quiet compared to what it was. But the lutherie section is quite active.
Posts: 4577
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Unfortunately it is a sign of the times. The people active and interested in flamenco discussion have probably found other spaces. It is a shame really. In the future after I release (eventually) some research into flamenco origins I plan to have an open chat for the topic available on my website, which could include the generic strings nails compas guitar wood etc questions that keep this place going. I hope long term this place can be archived as "read only", and if not, I would at least like to get my 16k posts downloaded to a drive or something, with active YouTube links at least. In the past, when members have jumped ship certain closed or deleted threads remain useful thanks to the text quote boxes preserved in active member responses. I think with my posts, someone could discern what the discussion was about from my posts, and I would be willing to host all my pages on my website for posterity. Again this would be only if the entire foro could not be archived "read only" somewhere.
The best and most complete and reliable solution for preserving the posts (in the future, just in case), is a complete database export by Simon. There are other solutions like forum archiver scripts etc. but those are alternatives if an admin is not reachable or not cooperative etc. which I'm sure is not the case here.
I agree that the sheer amount of knowledge and info shared in this forum must be saved and made searchable and readable in a worst case scenario. It is a gold mine for any afficionado who cares about the real deal.
Posts: 4577
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to silddx)
quote:
ORIGINAL: silddx
This is the only Flamenco web hangout I use. It's a massive resource, but yeah, it's quiet compared to what it was. But the lutherie section is quite active.
Oh man, I remember times when there were two or three full lines of online people posting and several new member joins daily. But yeah I could still spend hours in the search function and learn new stuff non stop.
Posts: 231
Joined: Mar. 19 2024
From: Hunan, China
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to Arash)
I think that's because there is so much useful information, and people can easily find it by searching. For my situation. I didn't have an account on Foro before. I created an account because I want to communicate with professionals on the forum about guitar. And I also want to browse the advertisement part and look for some interesting guitars for sale. I trust that there are many people who pay attention to this website but don't have an account.
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to Arash)
We'll never let this place die! I may have taken breaks just because I had too much going on with work and studies, but I always lurk if I'm not actively posting. Vamos!
Posts: 2909
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to Arash)
Arash! I think I posted a similar post to this when I returned after a long period out. It does feel sad, and completely different to the wild days of the early 2000s. These last months have been pretty quiet tbh. We've lost some huge personalities over the years. I wish they were still around , but I guess besides all the other reasons people don't visit so much (Kids,work, life etc) it also had some kind of in built mechanism..... beginners and learners used to come here and get drunk of the flamenco knowledge. Then progress and progress to a point where they maybe didn't need this place so much any more. I mean there are a lot of guys left here who know all the stuff about nails, Picado, counting bulerias ...the classics..... but not so many hungry young beginners.
I also agree that the wealth of info, Videos, yt channels, online courses that are available is a massive part of it.
Also, this website is kinda ol fashioned... often think it lacks some usability for the kind of things people wanna do these days... (but after the last time we tried to modernise!!? Jeez.. can't really entertain the thought of that again)
I still love this place. And it holds a massive place in my heart and I owe a lot of my progress and journey to it!
That all being said....I just looked at the main thread in general... is the busiest is been for ages!!
Posts: 3505
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to Arash)
Ten to twenty years ago there was an upsurge of interest in flamenco among the greater public as well as aficionados. I think that interest has ebbed considerably, though, and it is reflected in the lack of activity on the Foro. I well remember in the early to mid 2000s, Washington, DC's George Washington University's Lisner Auditorium would host an annual five-day flamenco festival that featured a different performance each evening. It featured such performers as Paco de Lucia, Sara Baras and her troupe, Enrique Morente and a host of others. That lasted about six years, but it died, I assume because interest declined. These days, there are hardly any flamenco performances in the Washington, DC area.
Another possible reason for the decline of the Foro is many of us (I include myself) learned a lot in the early days of our participation, but, in my case, I reached a level I was satisfied with and didn't continue pursuing further advancement, as I had a teacher, Paco de Malaga who became a good friend to work with (although I didn't advance much further due to limited musical ability). One thing that did pique my interest was the period four or five years ago when Ricardo and Konstantin were really digging into the history of flamenco. They really came up with some interesting information regarding the earliest form of flamenco and its origin. But once that came out, there was not much left to do with it. The Lutherie section still has some interesting posts, but the general section is primarily of interest only to the person posing the question (which has often been repeated many times: arpeggio, humidity, travel with guitar, etc.).
I still check in on the Foro, but I have little to add to the conversation, as there are others who are better informed on most of the topics. Nevertheless, I hope the Foro continues, as I will always have a sentimental attachment to it. Over the years it has meant a lot to me.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to Arash)
The decline in involvement with the foro strikes me as being simply an instance of a growing lack of engagement in everything (contributed to in some unknown degree by the effects of Covid on social cohesion of course).
We are adrift and have donated our autonomy to rapacious conglomerates and Big Tech 'reality' setters who then embark on the 'enshittification' of their return on our cultural investment (see Cory Doctorow). We react negatively to that, though the meagre reward they provide i.e. the ability to listen to endless cheese, might make that seem acceptable. Enough rope etc.
I don't doubt that professional flamenco has changed so it is no longer as compelling as it was to some. But I think that attitude is common across all serious music - unless momentarily hyped into an ersatz 'passion' by marketeers.
These contributions to the decline in cultural consumption are pretty clear, but they are only functions of a greater malaise.
Today's Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/12/france-crisis-political-faith-belief-democratic-world-vanishing) pointed to reasons why we are in deep, deep merde and the effect on cultural loss is only one result.
"If a sort of global anti-democracy revolt or, at least, a critical loss of faith in democratic systems is occurring, it would be useful to know why. Short- and long-term economic issues – the cost of living, inflation, lack of good jobs, de-industrialisation, shattered communities, institutional failures, wealth inequality, globalisation, mass migration linked to the climate crisis, the busted myth of infinitely sustainable growth – are all factors. Untrustworthy leaders, reflecting falling moral standards, is another. Insidious election meddling and online fakery by Russia and others hasten breakdown. Younger generations are pitted against ageing populations. And there is hopelessness, as well as anger, about the mess the world is in, environmentally and geopolitically."
So, it's not the foro, it's the world. How we get out of this is difficult to answer, lest we decide on the 'traditional' remedy for social breakdown which I won't name. In the meantime, and it IS happening, we can move away from digital consumption.
Posts: 4577
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to El Burdo)
Nice to see that there are still couple of you guys around. And some interesting and thought provoking comments as well, thank you for those.
To be honest, at the end of the day and after thinking about it for a bit, I realized I should start blaming myself first, before searching for other reasons.
I completely neglected guitar and flamenco for almost a decade and just came back to it and started practicing again and getting active here again. So, who am I to say why forum is empty. If everyone would do the same, then it is obvious it gets empty. Sure, life, work, injury, this and that. **** happens. But it your're really passionate about something, you will always find the time and a way, instead of getting numb and lazy. Best example is Ricardo. Sure he is a professional musician, but still most others probably would not spend time for only a few people left and explain stuff in detail, again and again. Dedication and passion to the art to keep it alive, as much as a single person can do. Even if it is for one or two people. You have to respect that and try to do the same. Probably getting older also helps to appreciate stuff which one might have ignored when younger.
Anyways, hope things will get better. I kind of have a feeling that sooner or later even very young people will look for simple, old school, and challenging stuff again, instead of being consumed and directed by tech 24/7. Human brain is simply not made for the world which many are predicting. Can't fast forward evolution with the same speed Tech and AI and whatnot are moving forward. Well, unless you let Elon drill a hole to your brain and plant some chips in there.
Posts: 15984
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Can Foroflamenco be revived?? (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
That lasted about six years, but it died, I assume because interest declined. These days, there are hardly any flamenco performances in the Washington, DC area.
While I agree it is not “as it was”, basically the high point being BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11 2001(!!), the truth is nuanced here. Stuff did not “die” totally, just became disconnected I would say. The festival at GW was promoted and hosted only in February, and despite our hopes and dreams for global warming to do away with those pesky winter storms, they continued happening. I remember distinctly the demise of the festival when they had to cancel shows for snow. Rather than try to switch the month, they gave up on the whole thing. Meanwhile they continued in New York because those people are used to snow storms not affecting life. My student from Canada finds the way we deal with snow here in the DMV absolutely hysterical. For god sake if it rains a little hard they cancel school and shut stuff down, it is ridiculous around here! (We never got a really vast subway system for example, and traffic remains a problem).
Meanwhile, the next generation of flamenco dancers never manifested….they remained as amateurs that today are married and/or have day jobs, so function only as substitute artists or hobbyists. That was a major difference after 2001 I noticed, such that the only professional is the young gypsy girl dancer (knew her at 5 and she is now in her mid 20s) who today has no peers in the scene and hangs out with 50 year olds like myself because no young people are into it seriously, and she tried her hand at it in Spain with wishy washy results. She also got a day job and is planning to settle down. She dances weekly around town if you did not know. This week I am doing 2 flamenco shows, Annapolis Thursday and Friday Taberna (they have it EVERY WEEKEND there with different artists), and Grisha plays here on Sunday. There is the Torcuarts organization with Manolo Caracol’s grandson as the president that are doing events all the time, though for personal reasons I don’t get involved. So it is not true there is nothing going on, but yes things are different. As discussed in the past, flamenco has always followed trends up and down going back to the late 1800s apparently.
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