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RE: Rosette making
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ernandez R
Posts: 742
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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 RE: Rosette making (in reply to Stu)
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Stu,
Thats looking really good.
Do you have the ring colors picked yet?
You build the whole rosette or do Like Ethan and Rob just mentioned and tile first in the top then rout for the rings etc. Going to try wheat too?
About the origin of my roseate style, hard to say just came to me, once I had the idea I ripped some wedges of wood and cut some strips of high rag art card stock and had a log assembled in about an hour. used a lot of super glue ;) sliced the end off in the band saw, wiped a thin film of CA into the end grain to stabilize, then sliced off another tile. I didn't use this first batch but it was fun to idea then produced output, I'm kind a creative endorphin junky so when I get an idea I race through it cause; like the say there is a fine line between a hero and a bunghole. Every once in a while I strike out. Anyone notice I glued the end graft tile on the Maple box upside down, face palm, of course I planed it that way. Hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread? I think some of my tile inspiration came from those early 18th century rosettes with the row of triangles around the sound hole almost like a sunburst.
the Boss just skied by the window, times to put the keyboard away.
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date Jan. 18 2024 1:34:50
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Rosette making (in reply to Stu)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stu
I tried the Ramirez glue method.
I didn't work as well as hoped. Took the thing from the mold after a few hrs to check it and some parts hadn't stuck. Think I managed to remedy it now though.
It seems the bowl of glue they show in the Ramirez vid had some tiny bit of water added? Would you say that's correct? It seems looser
Hi Stu, it sounds like you’re either going pretty lean on the glue or taking way too long to apply it.
I use white glue and I do it at a sink, basically hold the fan in one hand, run the other under the tap to wet my fingers, then dip them in the glue. So, it does have a bit of water introduced. I slather the glue on, however, I don’t try to minimize it at all. Then once the glue is spread from one end to the next I close the fan and use my fingers to both squeeze out the excess glue and also form the stick into a square rod ready for the clamping mold.
If your stick is not fully adhering I think you’re either not applying enough glue or you’re squeezing it all out when forming the stick (too much pressure). The whole glue spreading operation goes so fast I can’t see how the glue would have enough time to dry, even if there was no water introduced. I mean, it takes less than a minute from first dry fanout to a completely glued up stick ready for the mold. Right before I put it in the mold I clean my hands and gently wipe the stick clean on the outside with my fingers or a damp rag, but I’m careful not to overdo it and make it too wet.
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Date Jan. 18 2024 2:30:34
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ernandez R
Posts: 742
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Rosette making (in reply to Stu)
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The CAD program I use is called Graphite, it’s been around a long time, think I used the precursor thirty years ago, it had/has some really cool features that made it stand out from Auto-Cad and the others back in the day. Gotta be honest though, the learning curve for any cad program is brutal, **** I forget features then rediscover them later; sucks to get old.
Back to my tiles, think I’ll make that tall narrow log as a rectangle then shave the sides to the triangle shape, as I only use six tiles around my rosette I only need a short log of the compleat “fan”, but it takes six pieces of the primary, if I want to end up with a 10cm of fan log I need to have 60cm of the other. Sounds like a mile in the metric ;)
I was thinking there was a hint of the Alhambra rosette in this one. Made by ??? I’ll need to google peracon
Still not exactly sure how to finish the pointy end, going to do a test run of some black walnut and poplar I have laying around before I use the colored veneers.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stu
Cool!!!
That's lovely to feel I inspired you somewhat!
I really like the look of those fans. A little evolution of your fan design with the blue is great. It looks a little more like a classic pericón shape!
Very keen to see the outcome.
Also what cad program do you use?
I would like to get one and learn a little
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date Jan. 26 2024 5:27:38
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ernandez R
Posts: 742
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Rosette making (in reply to Stu)
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Negative forty below zero yesterday, just stayed home, stoked the shop wood stove, and turned Little pieces of into tiny pieces of wood.
I made a pair of veneer glueing trays to keep the layers clamped up the same thickness all around basically a box with a thick plate I can clamp on top. Made the whole glue up process a snap. I oiled the box with olive oil cause it handy but lined the box with clear kitchen wrap. I cheated and used thick CA on these two logs.
I started in the shop at 8:45am and walked out at 9:00pm, half that time on a shop stool or I never could have lasted that long. A short lunch and dinner break because I’m not invincible.
Question for the rosette pros: how do you deal with the swelling and shrinking of the HHG or TB water born kind? By the time I get my seven layers all wet out they have swollen a lot. Can’t imagine twice as many .5mm layers (I’m doing 1mm cause ;)
As you noticed I janked the green/poplar log, if only I had stoped to make a glue up mold like I did for the veneer stacks… glue and learn!
I think the black walnut/poplar tile would look better without the lines in the middle so I’ll give that a try.
I did add a row of poplar on the vary top but it made the lines going through it look stupid… I don’t know, I’ll sit on these for a bit before I dicide how I’ll actually use them. Told the Boss they’d make some fancy earrings if nothing else ;)
Getting a handle on how much material I need so I didn’t wast a lot of time is important. I’m making my own veneers cause that’s how I roll. Set up a zero relief plate on my 12” bandsaw with a nice 1/2 blade, sand the face of the veneer block with each cut, then cut 1-2 thousandths of an inch over. I light pull or three over a sanding block smooths the rough side just enough. Not sure I could do .5mm though, not with the polar for sure but I have some birch that might do. My first set of veneers for the blue tile I made 6” long, just long enough to not make two guitars worth :/ Made these two starting with a 4” block plenty for o guitar of my style and enough extra but without wasting much.
Only -38f this morning which as you know is about the same as -38C…
HR
Stu, thought about time time I’m taking for this side trip and you with your family, only made one myself and wish we had made more, I would trade you in a heartbeat!
Rob, thanx for the compliment.
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
 Attachment (4)
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 2 2024 18:03:47
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ernandez R
Posts: 742
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: Rosette making (in reply to Jim Frieson)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jim Frieson
Sanding works well for smoothing strips .
Caveat ; most plastic glues that are used for making rosettes gum up sandpaper fast ,
so keep using fresh sandpaper.
When laminating veneers and strips , that you want all to be of the same dimension when they are glued , it is a good idea to use steel plates as gluing cauls .
Tends to keep the laminations flat , straight , and of the same thickness .
Jim, for the initial veneer glueup I made a pair of simple wood “boxes” out of some scrap I had laying around and stiff lids to clamp the stack at the exact hight. Sure made the whole process a snap.
I gave up on using water born glues and am using a slower cure thick CA, it’s a titebond product. I wipe the boxes with olive oil as a precautionary release then line with a piece of kitchen wrap film, glue the strips one at a time after laying in the box then fold the film over and clamp the caul on top. Then fill the second side, hop back to the first and unclamp and pull the cover off and two small taps of accelerator with a applicator stick aka toothpick or the like, clamp back up. Accelerate the #2 then unpack #1, fill back up, etc… goes super fast, glued up a hand full of strips in about 30 min.
I have a downdraft section of my big workbench about 12” x 6” that vents outside and I work over that cause. Work smart, work safe.
A thing about most CA used to day in woodworking and craft: it takes 24 hours to fully cure so it’s not fully instant, some are but it’s hard to tell.
I didn’t care for how the blue turned once wetted out with glue in my first fan tile iteration so I’m using a different darker blue. Also using Ak yellow cedar to match the ribs/back on these upcoming flamencas. Set them aside for the moment to keep at the two guitars I’ve got in process. I get lost with too many irons in the fire ;)
HR
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
Attachment (2)
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date Feb. 29 2024 17:04:46
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