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RE: Guitar Makers and Luthiers "not meet the criteria" Stock
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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 RE: Guitar Makers and Luthiers "... (in reply to johnguitar)
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Here’s my contribution, lol.
I’ve also got tops, bridges, sides, and backs that didn’t make the grade. You’re right, it’s hard to throw the stuff out although I do repurpose what I can. My friend Sergei has built over a thousand guitars and he is still adding to his pile. He would never let a guitar that didn’t meet his standards out of his shop, it’s simply not worth it. That’s pretty well the story with every maker I know.
The sad thing is Manitas will take these photos as proof positive that he is right in his wrong-headedness. In reality, it proves exactly what everyone who’s responded has been telling him right from the get go, which is that any maker worth their salt doesn’t put their mistakes into circulation, they redo, repair, or reject. There are no “deals” to be had simply because the “not so good” stock does not exist. But he’ll never get that because he’s a troll on a crusade, I fear.
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Date Dec. 15 2023 21:53:49
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Manitas de Lata
Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018
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RE: Guitar Makers and Luthiers "... (in reply to RobF)
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Hum? no... not really....
its nice to share common and different point of view , altough some people said (not me) here that at a certain level makers dont do mistakes...
In the past i worked (almost no digital content to learn) with some materials , reparing and craft from scratch almost with no electric tools, just a sander and a planer , the rest werent electric , and i know theres many things to control in the process.
Therefore you can control with a "controlled room" that have all the conditions to do that , "factory" style , like controled temperature , humidity etc very important , and sometimes the material is sold as the same , and when you start you realise that its not and others issues like a tool that starts to show less precision , somedays you dont feel ok or you fell tired , or stress with deadline , thats also the timming when errors are made.
so **** happens
sorry that you didnt understood that i allready skiped an oportunity and regreat it. or you didnt read ... , thats why im lookin for another , of course it not easy to find , i dont know many makers , and here are very very few of them (flamenco or classical) and some do other things .
well i can allways save more cash and get a "no issue" one of course, yet im open to opportunities.
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Date Dec. 16 2023 2:29:53
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Guitar Makers and Luthiers "... (in reply to Manitas de Lata)
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There’s nothing inherently wrong with a maker offering “seconds” at a reduced rate. “Seconds” is a pretty broad term, however. What people have been trying to tell you here is that, with individual makers at least, there simply isn’t an abundant supply of ‘B’ stock available because many or most makers will make corrections throughout the build process to minimize this. Also, many makers simply will not offer the option.
You can hold on to your beliefs and that’s OK. People have offered honest descriptions of how they choose to conduct their businesses and you can decide from that how appropriate it is for you to continue to pursue the topic. It’s important to understand that the makers who frequent this section are individuals who are practicing the craft at various levels, from novice to full blown professional. The section mainly exists for people to help each other out and discuss the craft. It’s a great section to follow if you’re interested in the nuts and bolts of guitar making. But even if it were a trade section, you won’t get far with fault finding or aggressive bargaining, as most are proud of their work and won’t react positively. And frankly, the person who would be willing to haggle with you is likely going to give you exactly what you deserve.
Regardless of all that, best of luck in your quest, there’s no doubt times are tight, and there’s no foul in wanting to find the best deal you can. But this is probably not the right place to be looking for it. Maybe it would be better to post an advert in the classifieds section stating that you’re looking for a guitar within a specific price range, let people know the general area where you live and that you’d like a handmade guitar and mention that you are open to considering ‘seconds’ or ‘B’ stock. Posts to that section are tightly controlled so you would have to conduct any discussions via PM, but that might be the best way to take it from here.
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Date Dec. 16 2023 4:38:04
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Manitas de Lata
Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018
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RE: Guitar Makers and Luthiers "... (in reply to RobF)
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thanks for your reply , usefull .
i saw a classical from a chinese luthier , that dropped more that 1000K , it was like 6000 and something..., ups (suppose) made a mistake handling her...
the purpose , was to help each other , not to find seconds and flip them or so ever.
I realise that things often take huge dimension aroud here , hope that its just around here , like its quite odd to have that posture (not yours) all the time in personal life , and of course no one is forced to do an offer and accept.
like i said , i will wait for the right time to have "no seconds" or have it, its a pitty that i know one guy that make top guitars for very very nice price and for now hes on hold , well i dont have hurry so i can wait .
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Date Dec. 16 2023 11:05:26
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Guitar Makers and Luthiers B Stock (in reply to constructordeguitarras)
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Yeah, I suppose it happens. I’ve discounted guitars that have had shop damage, mainly from being scratched up or having button rashes from people trying them out, but they didn’t have mistakes or quality issues. I’ve given some away, too, for various reasons, but again, none of them had quality issues.
I think maybe in North America, due to the distances and more isolation between makers, what you mention might happen less than, say, in Spain where individual making is more established and maybe there’s an easier market for selling unlabelled guitars? I don’t know the answer to that, I’m just speculating. I guess it could also come down to how a person was taught and how their teachers did things, that’s not a value judgement on anything, just people will often follow the paths they’re shown.
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Date Dec. 17 2023 4:34:41
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estebanana
Posts: 9357
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Guitar Makers and Luthiers "... (in reply to Manitas de Lata)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata
Well , this is a stupid topic as you say, and have also many stupid comments (ok if you feel apropriate) , the other topic (varnish) thats not stupid (in my point of view) theres Zero Help given...for a "simple" thing.
The things are what you decide to be , like your own reflexion.
So , im not really the issue or this topic , but what you decide to become.
"Lets trash a topic because i say its stupid, but the other its better not to comment because its easier to trash this one"
There’s another forum about guitar about guitar making where your questions would be better received because there’s a large and under informed group of non guitar makers ready to give advice and opinions on guitar making. You’d be good fit there. It’s called DelCamp Guitar Forum. Try it and see if it suits your tastes better.
Many accomplished guitar makers assessed your questions then provided realistic and relevant answers. If the answers are not satisfactory there are two possible explanations. First, the group of guitar makers here don’t have the answers that validate or confirm your certainty that guitar makers have ‘B’ versions if their work for you to buy at a discount. Or it was a question that wasn’t well thought out before it was asked.
I suggest you ask the same question on two other different guitar maker groups and compare the answers. After that come to a conclusion about how the guitar makers assess your questions.
It’s not easier to trash a question about potential sales of our work, our guitars that we spend many week making before we release them to the buyer, we want to sell guitars. You are one of those guys who it looking for a cheaper guitar, you’re not entitled to a cheaper guitar, you will pay the same price as all the other customers who commission an instrument because you are not above them on the list. If you want a custom guitar get on a waiting list and pay your deposit and please wait until it’s your turn to have your guitar built. If you want a faster guitar with flaws or a used guitar your time will be better spent combing auction sites and for sales lists. There is a Guitar For Sale list at DelCamp Forum, I suggest you comb through it.
So you have options, you can ask your ‘B list’ questions on other forums, you can search auctions, but your query on this group has obviously run its course. A half dozen vetted pro guitar makers and some high level second career makers have proffered excellent feedback at Foro Flamenco Luthiery section.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Dec. 18 2023 4:45:23
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