Is a lower bridge height really needed for a flamenco guitar

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metalhead

Posts: 110
Joined: Apr. 15 2023

Is a lower bridge height really need...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2023 8:51:10

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to metalhead)

Topic has been discussed here in the foro in different 3d.
You will find old posts with Anders and recent discussion about the extent of a lower bridge.
The simple answer is yes. A flamenco guitar needs of a lower and lighter bridge than a classical guitar.
How high is currently the bridge saddle ? More than 12 mm?
This thing goes always together with the neck angle.
If your luthier assessed the bridge saddle is too tall over the top, you should trust him and have him lowering it down.
Usually this doesn’t require to take the bridge off. Maybe there’s a reason for that, I’d just ask him.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2023 12:54:53

metalhead

Posts: 110
Joined: Apr. 15 2023

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to Echi)

He was talking about the bridge, not just the saddle

The guitar had a standard Classical guitar bridge height

He said that for performing rasgueados and golpes a lower bridge height is important

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2023 17:18:54

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to metalhead)

It’s what I meant: what matters is the distance from the top to the E string measured at the saddle.
I am not a native English speaker and maybe I wasn’t clear.
Traditionally a bridge is also lighter than in a classical guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2023 18:13:37

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to metalhead)

quote:

ORIGINAL: metalhead

He was talking about the bridge, not just the saddle

The guitar had a standard Classical guitar bridge height

He said that for performing rasgueados and golpes a lower bridge height is important

There are some assumptions to be made. First, is the action over the fingerboard also too high? Cuz if it is NOT then the lower bridge and saddle will cause it to buzz, perhaps un acceptably.

Assuming the action is high and will be better off when the saddle is lowered, and the issue is that if lowered to zero the bridge itself is too high to go any lower (the wood is too high), then there is no need to take the bridge off the guitar. The wood can be shaved down much lower and even below the line of the tie block. The issue then becomes how much saddle you need to achieve or maintain a break angle GREATER THAN ZERO. That is the angle the string bends over the saddle downward into the tie hole. If it is exactly zero then the strings will be buzzing and off intonation at the saddle. This can also be fixed by filling and re-drilling the tie hole slots lower or at a down angle toward the headstock. Another fix is the 12-hole scenario so you don’t have a tie pulling up on the string. NONE of these repairs require bridge removal.

Make sure you take a careful look and imagine the scenarios I describe before handing over the guitar to the Luthier, perhaps discussing these options first as well. In the end consider also, investing in a proper flamenco guitar with conventional flamenco neck angle set up from the start. You could sell this guitar unaltered.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2023 19:13:56

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to metalhead)

quote:

I'd had a cheap classical guitar. I gave it to a luthier for converting it into a flamenco guitar.

I don't think you'll get a proper flamenco guitar setup.

Buy a good instrument. A good instrument is cheapest in the long run.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2023 21:52:30

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to metalhead)

I could comment, but I’d need some measurements and photos.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2023 23:56:10

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to metalhead)

As said, in normal circumstances the bridge doesn't have to be removed.
The part of the bridge holding the saddle could be shaved down till you reach the proper high.
As Ricardo pointed out, a problem may rise if the tie block is too high: or better, if the holes for the strings at the tie block are too high now, preventing a correct break angle.
In this case you may use a jig and a very long drill bit to make new holes in the bridge without removing it.
A different problem is the neck angle.
A very high bridge suggests your guitar has a close to 0 neck angle. Such set up usually can be adjusted for flamenco without the need to work the fretboard.

With regards of the tone, I do not think it will change too much.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2023 13:20:59

Fawkes

Posts: 103
Joined: Feb. 11 2015

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to Echi)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi
With regards of the tone, I do not think it will change too much.

How likely is it that the response will change enough on a cheap classical to be worth the trouble?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2023 17:51:51

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Is a lower bridge height really ... (in reply to metalhead)

To play flamenco you just need the proper set up. I’d rather assess if the guitar would anyway get close to a flamenco guitar after the job..

If your question relates to the matter of tone, Alan Carruth gave once a scientific answer about the break angle. To summarisite it, the string break angle must change quite a lot before any significant change in tone could be assessed.
Difficult to assess what kind of tonal change you may get as it depends on the specific guitar and they are relevant things like how thin is the top, how light is the bridge, the whole geometry etc.

If the guitar offers a good separation and dry basses or the guitar as a fast attack, then it’s just a matter of set up and can play flamenco. Rasgueado just require the strings to be close enough to the fretboard. When the action is set ok you should face the set up of the bridge as described above.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2023 0:25:44