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estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

New Kiridashi (knife) 

****

Notice ~this is a post about a very sharp and potentially dangerous knife. I have a legitimate intention in using it carefully in my work. Caution should be encouraged in selecting knives according to your skill level and guitar making techniques.






Have had eyes on one of these for a while and bought it today. A friend of mine owns a construction supply company and I remember they had a tool dept so I dropped in. The friend also he happens to be a very fine classical guitarist with a couple serious guitars, a Humphries and an important Japanese maker whose name I always forget, but who studied with Bouchet.

Obvi I got this for carving the heel of the neck. It’s both strong and delicate, made just for those kinds of compound inside curved volumes.

What knives do you like?







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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2023 5:38:13
 
eccullen

 

Posts: 97
Joined: Aug. 14 2007
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

Wow...
How cool is that!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2023 5:43:08
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to eccullen

I think this is a take ( pronounced- tahkay - bamboo) workers knife. It’s made to slice off the ridges of bamboo kulms ( the place where sections join)

When I got here I met an old carpenter who gave me one he made with a piece of a plane blade. Farmers often make their own, but the store bought ones better my purpose.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2023 6:18:38
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

What I forgot to say was that I bought this knife at his store and he says yeah I’ve been meaning to order a guitar from you. 😂
He’s going to get the small 19th century model. Which is cool be already had his full sized guitars set. This is one reason I worked out that model. Once people have their full size modern quiver worked out, they seem to want a small one for an alternative to playing the big modern cannons.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2023 6:28:48
 
JasonM

Posts: 2081
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

That is one sweet shank. a lefty? Really like the longer thin blade. Dont see that as much
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2023 15:58:39
 
RobF

Posts: 1616
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to JasonM

Mad-Inter used to sell those Japanese knives for pretty cheap and they’re all over the place in luthier workshops. A lot of luthiers seem to like the Japanese chisels and knives, which says something about the general level of intelligence of the average luthier. I think it’s just a fad, they aren’t that useful, you have to learn to work around their fundamental flaws. Eventually people will figure it out. I find the traditional Frost/Mora laminated blades far more useful, but to each their own.

The pro side of the Japanese blades is they are easy to sharpen and can have great steel. Downside is the steel can be chippy, the straight cut of the blade is awkward to use on the curves of a neck and, and while the right hand blade is commonly available, the left isn’t and you really need both left and right hand versions to be effective.

A lot of the Japanese style chisels are totally stupid for lutherie, too. But they make for great promo shots. Nothing beats a shot of the serious luthier sighting down a brace whilst holding one of his sexy Japanese chisels like it’s some kind of expensive pool cue. If the luthier is female it works even better if the shot is taken while she kneels on the bench straddling the workpiece with her ass sticking up in the air. Helps if the jeans are tight. Very arty. Rather erotic. Appeals to both the serious dilettante as well as the rest of us horny bohunks. Sells guitars, too. I’ll be right back…

That long bladed one shown in the OP looks ridiculous for lutherie and is strictly for poseurs. I had one kicking around somewhere but I just looked all over and couldn’t find it. Maybe I gave it away, but I can’t really see doing that to anyone I like. I have a few of the shorter ones laying about but stopped using them for general work ages ago. I suppose they have their place, I have a place in a drawer for them. Now and again I’ll pull one out so I can feel like I know what I’m doing, then it goes back in the drawer when I reach for a Frosts so I can get on with doing the job right.

But again, to each their own. Reminds me I’ve got to make lunch.



P.S. seriously, though, you can easily make a mess of yourself with that knife (or maybe of me). Either that or badly scratch a side one day while carving the heel. Do that once (in my case, way more than once) and you’ll start to look at them in a new light. Anders had the right idea, he used the Swedish style and I suspect it wasn’t for lack of availability of the Japanese variants.

P.P.S. This interruption was a public service announcement. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming of talking about food. Which is probably what that long bladed knife is good for. Filleting fish. Yummy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2023 18:27:54
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

I've been using the same Japanese Knife for the best part of 20 years now and wouldn't carve a heel without it.

I understand Robs complaint though which is why I bought a double beveled knife so it can be used for both left and right side without having to alter technique. I have also rounded the bevel too to make going around a corner easier, it makes sharpening easier too.

The chippy Japanese Chisels are most likely cheap or imitations. I bought a set of Ice Bear ones when I started out which are a little on the brittle side because they use HSS. I got a real one for my 30th birthday and it was a revalation. I use it for as many of jobs as possible now. It holds it's edge well is way easier to sharpen and has never chipped.

Having said that as Rob says, to each there own. I learned the craft using Japanese chisels and saws so changing to western style would've felt awkward.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2023 20:19:57
 
RobF

Posts: 1616
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to Stephen Eden

Hi Stephen, I learned on Japanese tools, too. None of my Japanese stuff is cheap or imitation, either, a lot of it was bought directly from Japan. Some of my chisels have become quite expensive and desirable items since the time when I bought them. The brittleness may be one thing, but it’s the shapes that made me move away from using them.

My biggest beef is with those knives. I used them for a long time, then started using the Swedish knives and it was a revelation. Just worked so much better for me. I find the same with the chisels, it’s just easier to register the regular full bar ones than the Japanese style. For me. Plus, I also think the shape of the heel on the Spanish guitar evolved directly from how the tools were used. A lot of the Japanese makers I personally know don’t build in the Spanish style and tend to carve the necks off the guitar. They often use rasps, where I would use a knife, and the way the knife is used, at least comparing the styles of the people whom I know compared to my style, is totally different. But I didn’t get this from either of my teachers, as they were both suckers for the Japanese chisels, I came to it on my own, so you’re right, it does come down to personal preference.

My beef with the knife in question on this thread is it’s too pointy and it’s too long. It may be fine for an experienced maker to pick up and give a whirl to, but an inexperienced maker is probably going to cut themselves or the guitar, likely both. I wasn’t joking when I said I have one like that, and yep, I cut myself every bloody time I used it. You’d think I’d learn after the first time.

But yeah, I’m a tool addict and have way more of this stuff than I need. I have a lot of affection for the Japanese tools. At this point, however, a set of unbevelled bench chisels and a couple of Frosts laminated 2-3 inchers is good enough for me. Although I love looking at the other stuff, too, lol, and if I’m going to be completely honest, there are specific tasks where I’ll almost always reach for a Japanese chisel. But, for general bench use, it’s western style all the way.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2023 21:13:30
 
ernandez R

Posts: 758
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to RobF

Rob,
How about a photo of your blades?

I have to confess I’m not a knife user myself but rather a rasp, file, and dust maker. Please don’t kick me out of the Foro for being such a hedenist 😈

That being said I had a need for a knife as I was dealing with the bottom transition of the neck headstock, spalted birch and hickory and found a need. I just took a thick bladed steak knife cut two thirds off the blade and shaped with a curve and double bevel, sharpened up to 600g wet/dry paper, and got with it. Worked better then I thought it should.

HR



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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 2:30:40
 
ernandez R

Posts: 758
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

Fucing Voles got into my smoked salmon… they didn’t get this one though. Thank the maker!



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_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 2:42:29
 
RobF

Posts: 1616
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to ernandez R

quote:

Rob,
How about a photo of your blades?


Here you go. Not much different from your home-made job, which I like a lot, btw.

They used to be pretty cheap and easily found but recently they’ve gone up in price and finding them isn’t as easy. I like the laminated ones, they sharpen up really nicely. The two on the bottom are the ones I use the most. I also have a couple of bench ones that I keep on the wall that I don’t use as much for carving, more for general use. Actually, I think I mixed them up and the bottom one is the bench one. The carving one is the same shape, but nicer.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 3:09:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

Wow, I had no idea we were dealing with the notorious ‘Tooliban’ 😂

Meet the kiridashi that cut a hundred guitar necks~

It’s like Eden’s the end is blunted and it’s a righty. I choose these because I like them the best. I got this in 2014 to replace the original I had since the 1990’s that I lost.

Since I grew up on the west coast of the US there’s always been a presence of Japanese culture, more so than in other places like Europe. Japanese families own tool and hardware stores that are old established businesses. For me it’s not trendy, it’s just what’s available and what I grew up using.

I also use German/Italian style violin makers knives, which are not significantly different than this style of kiridashi. Especially the narrow blade width kiridashi can be used interchangeably with. German style violin makers knife. That’s why violin tool suppliers sell them.







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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 4:11:50
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

To make a neck I use a bit of everything, and I don’t use all the tools every time. Sometimes I just use the Japanese knife for the whole neck end to end, and other days I use more tools. It’s really a matter of what mood I’m in. The necks all end up in my style no matter which way I use the tools.

Hand cut Swiss rasp - its teeth are set by hand by a rasp maker, it’s not machined.

Hand forged draw knife made by a small forge in Oregon.

A couple of scrapers

These tools are 25 years old, with the exception of the knife. I’ve used this set up for 25 years



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 4:25:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

Here is a comparison of Japanese kiridashi with German style violin makers knives.

The German knives are flatter steel stock, but otherwise similar. The price in € is ridiculous for me to pay for either a German or a Japanese knife imported from Europe, plus the shipping fee and tariffs. Why spend 4 times as much for something I can buy in my hometown, that is the same knife?

In case you didn’t know and anyone is wondering, lefty and righty Japanese knives aren’t hard to find. If you can’t get them I’d be happy to expedite them to you.









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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 4:34:39
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

You can get many widths and blade lengths, and they come in many blade angles, just like German style violin knives.

I was standing in front of Chez Panisse the world famous restaurant in Berkeley California ( there was a flamenco show in the bar next door) when the chef David Tanus walked out on the sidewalk to get out of the kitchen for few minutes. A guy next to me recognized him, he was wearing a chefs tunic 😂 and started chatting him up about cooking knives. He asked what kind of Japanese he should buy for cooking.

Tanus said: “Go down to Hida Tools on San Pablo Ave. ask Mr. Hida which knives are for cooking. Pick the one you like, and buy it. Cook with it. Knives are knives.”

Knives are knives.





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 4:43:51
 
RobF

Posts: 1616
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

I was more talking about the medieval instrument of death you were waving around at the beginning of the thread. I have a couple of the ones that are like what you just showed and I used them for the longest time. But then, on a whim, I started using my Mora bench knife and loved it, so I picked up a set of different ones to keep for carving. I still use the shorter bladed Japanese ones on occasion, but generally I stick to the Frosts.

Just like the left handed kiridashi, the laminated Frost knives have been harder to come by in my neck of the woods and have jumped a lot in price. But, it’s all good. They all can do the job. I’m glad we have so much variety to choose from. I just really like the Frosts.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 4:52:07
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

After you figure out what kind of knife you like and need there’s no reason to trash talk knives that other people like.

Knives are exactly like rasgueado, every one does it differently.
If you like German knives, the use them. If you like Swedish knives use them. If you like Japanese knives use them.

And nobody every said you can’t have a few of each.


The one in my hand is a fish knife. I’ve got several more. Fish knives come in hefty cleaver like pointed shapes called a Deba, I’ve got a great one. And they come on long thin or tall ones for cutting sashimi. I’ve got those too, very nice ones. I’m in THE land of fish knives.








The one with the maple handle is a shop made German style violin knife. It been used to a nub. I haven’t had time to make a new set. Scalpels, case knife, utility knife….. I love them all.

That’s my case knife for opening violins. Can’t do without that.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 4:52:23
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to RobF

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF

I was more talking about the medieval instrument of death you were waving around at the beginning of the thread. I have a couple of the ones that are like what you just showed and I used them for the longest time. But then, on a whim, I started using my Mora bench knife and loved it, so I picked up a set of different ones to keep for carving. I still use the shorter bladed Japanese ones on occasion, but generally I stick to the Frosts.

Just like the left handed kiridashi, the laminated Frost knives have been harder to come by in my neck of the woods and have jumped a lot in price. But, it’s all good. They all can do the job. I’m glad we have so much variety to choose from. I just really like the Frosts.



I told you it’s a bamboo knife, a farmers tool and today used a craft tool. Farmers make them in the farmhouse workshop with scrap steel, or you can buy one from a knife company.

I’m going to use it on carving heels because I like the long narrow blade for the inside curves.
And just so you know, all the Swedish blade shapes are also Japanese shapes, they have the same wood carving blades that those European knife makers use.

One more thing, do not ever bring up any reference to seppuku with me. It’s really a bad subject to bring up because A. It’s a stereotype of Japanese people and culture- and B. It’s horrific.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 5:25:46
 
RobF

Posts: 1616
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

Man, you’re sensitive. It’s all fine and dandy for you to jump on other’s threads and totally trash them and, by inference, the people participating in them, but let anyone dare step on your delicate toes and all hell breaks loose. And don’t go putting your phoney outrage on me. I have no idea what you’re talking about with this seppiku stuff and intended no insult to any culture. You want to tilt at windmills, that’s your problem.


*edit* at any rate, I apologize for participating in this thread, and also to you, because if I’m going to be truly honest with myself, this whole exercise was pointless and I was kinda baiting you, I guess, I mean, maybe a little. You can hold whatever feelings towards me you want, man, I’m just tired of all the negativity and discourtesy in this place recently and I have a misguided habit of using poor attempts at humour to alleviate the stress. I bear you no ill will and I’ll stay out of your way in the future. Hopefully you’ll extend the same courtesy and stay out of mine.

Peace out.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 5:41:44
 
Fawkes

 

Posts: 104
Joined: Feb. 11 2015
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

The three wood handled ones are HSS, and two of those are inexplicable instances of pushing at the envelope: the soundpost knife takes the required edge; and the bridge knife works too, but resharpening those doesn't need to be made worse than it already is, which this does. The familiar scalpel is from my Lundberg-inspired lute making days (rosette-piercing).



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 6:17:44
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to RobF

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF

Man, you’re sensitive. It’s all fine and dandy for you to jump on other’s threads and totally trash them and, by inference, the people participating in them, but let anyone dare step on your delicate toes and all hell breaks loose. And don’t go putting your phoney outrage on me. I have no idea what you’re talking about with this seppiku stuff and intended no insult to any culture. You want to tilt at windmills, that’s your problem.


*edit* at any rate, I apologize for participating in this thread, and also to you, because if I’m going to be truly honest with myself, this whole exercise was pointless and I was kinda baiting you, I guess, I mean, maybe a little. You can hold whatever feelings towards me you want, man, I’m just tired of all the negativity and discourtesy in this place recently and I have a misguided habit of using poor attempts at humour to alleviate the stress. I bear you no ill will and I’ll stay out of your way in the future. Hopefully you’ll extend the same courtesy and stay out of mine.

Peace out.

I started this thread without putting any sauce on it, and if you tease a bull in it’s yard and all that…

You really jumped on Eden about his knife and I didn’t like that because he’s the most mild mannered guy. I by chance use the same knife for cutting necks.

The point is seeing tools helps people get an idea of which questions to ask, because they have an object to wonder about; how does the guitar maker use that and why. Then a conversation can happen because the people showing their tools have reasons for choosing them based in the way they work. So if the guitar makers show the tools of the trade then there’s a context for a discussion that everyone can participate in. The makers can explain why they use them and the aspiring makers or just interested readers can read for fun.


The other model for discourse is for one person to talk about their copies of a famous guitar makers guitars for ten years while it frustrates everybody else who could actually teach or discuss the fundamentals. We could go back to that… but from here in out I’m going to post interesting stuff from other angles, and if someone wants to put sauce on it, they’ll get sauce back.

Guasa is guasa, knives are knives. A guy complaining that we’re strange and discouraging to newcomers? Ok, there are 20 guitar forums in play right now in the world, this just happens to be the one that doesn’t coddle newcomers. Try a different guitar forum. Every forum has a different heat level, maybe the salsa is too hot here, that’s just the way it is.

This is small foro it’s always had an off kilter culture whether I’m involved or not. I can leave for a year or two at a time and nothing changes.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 6:53:35
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to Fawkes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawkes

The three wood handled ones are HSS, and two of those are inexplicable instances of pushing at the envelope: the soundpost knife takes the required edge; and the bridge knife works too, but resharpening those doesn't need to be made worse than it already is, which this does. The familiar scalpel is from my Lundberg-inspired lute making days (rosette-piercing).





I really like these and especially the Paracho cuchillo on the left. I haven’t had too much need of a bridge knife the last several years, so the wider knives get it done for me. But I’m feeling a pull to make a Brecian viola and another cello, that will mean making a few new violin specific knives.

Those guys in Paracho get away with just a couple knives, and I do to. I feel kind of funny about that, because it’s like we’re supposed to have an arsenal of knives, but I find myself mostly using that one.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 7:28:47
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

A dealer asked me for some promotional photos with my hands and tools, so tried a selfie with the new one. 😂 I don’t really think I’m a hand model anymore.




“😂

“That long bladed one shown in the OP looks ridiculous for lutherie and is strictly for poseurs.”

But again, to each their own. Reminds me I’ve got to make lunch.”

The I wish I was a girl luthier so I could pose with my bamboo forest in my bikini. But I’ll change my pronouns instead, from now on my pronouns are ‘she’ and ‘her’

Thank you. 😂

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 7:31:55
 
RobF

Posts: 1616
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

OK, I want to clear the air.

quote:


You really jumped on Eden about his knife and I didn’t like that because he’s the most mild mannered guy. I by chance use the same knife for cutting necks.


This one I regret because I had no intention of dumping on Stephen. I have huge respect for him, he’s a great guy and an awesome builder. Maybe the flippancy of my first post set the tone and my response to him sounded off, which I guess might be understandable, but with that context taken away, I wasn’t trying to be salty with Stephen. Shout out to Stephen Eden, no offence intended. You’re a legend, I mean it.

quote:

The point is seeing tools helps people get an idea of which questions to ask, because they have an object to wonder about; how does the guitar maker use that and why. Then a conversation can happen because the people showing their tools have reasons for choosing them based in the way they work. So if the guitar makers show the tools of the trade then there’s a context for a discussion that everyone can participate in. The makers can explain why they use them and the aspiring makers or just interested readers can read for fun.


Which is one of the reasons I made my tongue in cheek rant about the first knife. I have used an identical one and the problem with it when used for heel carving, at least I found, was the tendency to choke up on the blade for detail work, mainly to avoid the problems brought into play by its length, and then slicing into the pad of your index or next finger between the two knuckles. It’s a real danger. I’m not saying you’re going to cut yourself, you’re good enough not to, but a lot of new makers setting up their shops might not realize it, and the cuts that can happen can be significant. I’ll make a wager… if you use that blade for heel carving and walk away unscathed after, say two necks, I’ll pay for the thing. Well, up to $10. Canadian. But, you’ll have to be honest and tell us if you cut yourself. There’s no shame in it. It’s gonna happen. Jinx jinx.

quote:

Guasa is guasa, knives are knives. A guy complaining that we’re strange and discouraging to newcomers? Ok, there are 20 guitar forums in play right now in the world, this just happens to be the one that doesn’t coddle newcomers. Try a different guitar forum. Every forum has a different heat level, maybe the salsa is too hot here, that’s just the way it is.


The person in question has been a member here for a few years now, not a new member. But, new or not, there’s no reason to belittle people or be discourteous to them. The question he asked was totally reasonable and it’s not a great reflection on the place to treat a basic question or its originator so dismissively. Problem here is it’s largely unmoderated, everyone is very grateful to Simon for keeping the place open, and we really have no right to expect more. But that doesn’t mean it should become some Wild West free-for-all. But if that’s what turns people on, then have at it.

quote:

This is small foro it’s always had an off kilter culture whether I’m involved or not. I can leave for a year or two at a time and nothing changes.


Thing is, and you should know this, I admire your work, not just the guitars, but also your sculpture and art. But, respect has to flow both ways, not just for me, but for all the members here. This shouldn’t be a kiss up kick down kind of place. That only works for the very few, and if it keeps up pretty soon the place truly will lose relevance. I’m not trying to put you down, but when you push the quieter members around it’s not a good look. I also am pretty sure it’s not even an accurate look, as we’ve had great conversations in the past, so I feel I know this. Any rate, I don’t want fights and I accept the responsibility that I’ve pretty well been the instigator of this one, so truly and sincerely, I apologize.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 7:50:19
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to RobF

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF

OK, I want to clear the air.

quote:


You really jumped on Eden about his knife and I didn’t like that because he’s the most mild mannered guy. I by chance use the same knife for cutting necks.


This one I regret because I had no intention of dumping on Stephen. I have huge respect for him, he’s an awesome guy and an awesome builder. Maybe the flippancy of my first post set the tone and my response to him sounded off, which I guess might be understandable, but with that context taken away, I wasn’t trying to be salty with Stephen. Shout out to Stephen Eden, no offence intended.

quote:

The point is seeing tools helps people get an idea of which questions to ask, because they have an object to wonder about; how does the guitar maker use that and why. Then a conversation can happen because the people showing their tools have reasons for choosing them based in the way they work. So if the guitar makers show the tools of the trade then there’s a context for a discussion that everyone can participate in. The makers can explain why they use them and the aspiring makers or just interested readers can read for fun.


Which is one of the reasons I made my tongue in check rant about the first knife. I have used an identical one and the problem with it when used for heel carving, at least I found, was the tendency to choke up on the blade for detail work, mainly to avoid the problems brought into play by its length, and then slicing into the pad of your index or other fingers between the two knuckles. It’s a real danger. I’m not saying you’re going to cut yourself, you’re good enough not to, but a lot of new makers setting up their shops might not realize it, and the cuts that can happen can be significant. I’ll make a wager… if you use that blade for heel carving and walk away unscathed after, say two necks, I’ll pay for the thing. Well, up to $10. Canadian. You have to be honest and tell us if you cut yourself. There’s no shame in it. It’s gonna happen. Jinx jinx.

quote:

Guasa is guasa, knives are knives. A guy complaining that we’re strange and discouraging to newcomers? Ok, there are 20 guitar forums in play right now in the world, this just happens to be the one that doesn’t coddle newcomers. Try a different guitar forum. Every forum has a different heat level, maybe the salsa is too hot here, that’s just the way it is.


The person in question has been a member here for a few years now, not a new member. But, new or not, there’s no reason to belittle people or be discourteous to them. The question he asked was totally reasonable and it’s not a great reflection on the place treat a basic question or their originator with such disdain. Problem here is it’s largely unmoderated, everyone is very grateful to Simon for keeping the place open. But that doesn’t mean it should become some Wild West free-for-all. But if that’s what turns people on, then have at it.

quote:

This is small foro it’s always had an off kilter culture whether I’m involved or not. I can leave for a year or two at a time and nothing changes.


Thing is, and you should know this, I admire your work, not just the guitars, but also your sculpture and art. But, respecta has to flow both ways, not just for me, but for all the members here. This can’t be a kiss up kick down kind of place. That only works for the very few, and if it keeps up pretty soon the place truly will lose relevance. I’m not trying to put you down, but when you push the quieter members around it’s not a good look. I also am pretty sure it’s not even an accurate look, we’ve had great conversations in the past, so I know this. Any rate, I don’t want fights and I accept the responsibility that I’ve pretty well been the instigator of this one, so truly and sincerely, I apologize




L’Affair Mango. That yellowish orange stain on my reputation.
The poster had been a member for several years, and they didn’t know what they were getting into?

And a few months ago the long con set up to make a big deal out of using the word ‘pulsation’ ? You know these things are BS and have nothing to do with guitar making.

It will all even out. I might dull the end of the pointy knife, because that’s not why I got it.

The next time I frighten a poor newbie, all you have to do is tell them I’m the group jerk and not to listen to me. You have to rescue them.

Let’s just have a group hug and go back to work you, big galute.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 8:04:59
 
RobF

Posts: 1616
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

Geez. Will you quit copying all my replies so fast? At least give me ten minutes. It takes me freaking forever to fix all my spelling mistakes and bad grammar.

OK, no hard feelings on my part. Sorry for downing the thread, it’s actually a great one and tomorrow I’ll try to make a meaningful contribution.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 8:10:03
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to RobF

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF

Geez. Will you quit copying all my replies so fast? At least give me ten minutes. It takes me freaking forever to fix all my spelling mistakes and bad grammar.

OK, no hard feelings on my part. Sorry for downing the thread, it’s actually a great one and tomorrow I’ll try to make a meaningful contribution.



What did you make for lunch?

According to your correct observation that this is a serious knife, I attached a notice at the top of the thread.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 8:52:36
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

Don't worry Rob I take no offense, but thank you for your kind words.

By cheap I don't mean cheap by western standards but by Japanese chisel standards. I think my main chisel is about 350 euro for one 1 chisel! It was made by Akio Tasai. I also rounded the bevel on it to make heel carving easier. Probably considered sacrilege but it's my too sharpened to the way that helps me use it most effectively.

My set of Ice Bear chisels come in around £50 a chisel and are great but not really all that good guitars.

yes I have the kogatana deluxe that Mr Faulk posted. I certainly didn't pay that for it though. I think it was more like 20 Euro when I got it. It was a present from my Nan so technically didn't pay for it all. I doubt I'll ever need another unless I buy one for my student bench. This knife has carved a lot of necks. I am also lucky in that I am ambidextrous to some extent so I can use the knife (and chisels) equally as well in both hands.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 9:57:53
 
Firefrets

 

Posts: 114
Joined: Mar. 22 2023
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to estebanana

What's the score with Japanese tools? Why are they appreciated so much over what any other manufacturers offer?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 10:52:46
 
estebanana

Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New Kiridashi (knife) (in reply to Firefrets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firefrets

What's the score with Japanese tools? Why are they appreciated so much over what any other manufacturers offer?



It’s complicated. Some are good for guitar making and some aren’t, but there’s a different line for each person. I like western planes and chisels 100% better for planes, about 70% better for chisels. That’s like saying I have all western planes and 30% of my chisels are Japanese.

Japan has an obviously different carpentry system traditionally from the west, so the tools suit the traditional methods. There’s some crossover where for our guitar making purposes many Japanese tools work well or better for certain tasks. Japanese tools are primarily designed for post and beam structure building and then scaled down from there into other crafty versions of big tools. Since a lot of my fellow students in art school were Japanese I was exposed to the crafty tools very early, they they’re just another kind of normal.

The saws from Japan are particularly useful in guitar making and I’ve pretty much left western saws behind. You just mix and match they way you feel like doing it.

My chisels are all different, based around a $120.00 set of Robert Sorby chisels I bought in 1995- just added to that five piece set, and it’s not glamorous stuff, but the boxwood handles are hard to find now.

BTW this is a fish knife. It’s for taking the fish apart. It’s called a Deba. In my opinion it’s extremely dangerous unless you really know how to take the fish apart.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2023 13:20:02
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